WEDNESDAY?S CHILD

My Father's Family Background: The Mills / Fuller / Roff and Collins Families

Preamble to part one of ‘Wednesday's Child’ concerning my father's family background.

As far as my Mother was concerned, I was always aware that she came from quite a large family. And, because they were a close family unit, I got to see most of them on a fairly regular basis; that is except for my maternal Grandparents and Great Grandparents, who had died before I was born.

My Dad’s family, however, was somewhat different! They were nowhere near as ‘close knit' . as Mum’s family, and as far as I was concerned, they were also sadly lacking in numbers. During my lifetime, the only part of his family that I came into proper contact with, was his mother, his step-father, his half-sister and her husband, plus their daughter, who, strictly speaking, is my half-cousin.

There were other members of his family that slipped into my life from time to time ---- but they only entered it somewhat fleetingly. To say that I actually knew them would be a gross exaggeration. A more accurate way of putting it would be to say , 'I knew of them'!

Sadly, with the exception of my half-cousin, Anne Newsome,(née Waters), and an elderly cousin of my Dad’s ---- whom I have always known by her maiden name of ‘Josie Doe’ ---- my Dad’s family are long gone! And it is only thanks to my cousin Anne and her contact with Josie ---- who is now in her eighties ---- that I have managed to glean as much information as I have regarding Gran’s family background.

My aim has been to uncover as many facts and memories concerning my Dad’s family as possible, whilst trying to make some sense of the now, vague, half-remembered conversations, that obviously never received my full attention when I was a child. In so doing, hopefully, I will be able to give some indication as to where the various generations came from and what they did for a living. Because of my advancing years, I feel that it is necessary to get as much of this information down onto paper as soon as possible, so that there is some semblance of order in my memories and notes. I shall try to continue researching the family’s history for my own interest, and will endeavour to keep my records and findings in a reasonably intelligible state just in case one of my descendants should ever decide to carry on where I leave off, to fill in any gaps.

Nevertheless, I did get to meet my paternal Great Grandmother (Gt. Grannie Roff), my Grandmother ( Grannie Mills / Joy), and my step Grandfather (‘Pop’ Joy). I actually had only one aunt, an uncle and a girl cousin from my Dad’s side of the family. There were other family members, but they all appeared to be Gran’s relatives, and although they got a mention from time to time, I rarely ever got to see them.

My ‘true’ Grandad was John Mills, who was my Gran’s first husband. Sadly he lost his life when he was drowned at sea whilst serving with the Royal Navy. The tragedy occurred on the 25 September 1907, off of some islands in the Sea of Marmora. Not only was he unfortunate to have died in the prime of his life, it was also said that he had been orphaned as a very young child, and placed aboard a training ship on the River Thames, in preparation for a life at sea.

In actual fact, it was my lack of knowledge about him, that first fired my interest in finding out about my family’s history.

Ever since I was a young lad, and right up until a few years ago, I never really gave much thought to family history, let alone the history of this country of ours. As far as I was concerned, most of the history lessons I had at school, other than those involving explorations of new lands ---- which were generally quite exciting ---- everything else, seemed incredibly boring. None of it, it seemed, had any relevance to me personally!

The fact that any of my ancestors could have been around and might have witnessed, or been affected by, any of the things that my teachers were trying to teach me, never entered my head. I most certainly had no thoughts that I might have had ancestors that could have been around at the time of the Great Plague or the Fire of London. Neither, did I ever consider that one of the contributing factors to my being alive today, was down to the arrival of the Huguenots who settled in London in the 1600s. Nor, for that matter, did I have any inkling that I had Irish ancestors that might have been forced to leave their homeland due to either the potato famine, or the English presence out there. I was also totally unaware, thanks to an off-shoot of the family, that any of my cousins had Italian blood coursing through their veins.

As a boy growing up in the 1940s and 1950’s, I would often visit the cinema and enjoy swash-buckling sagas involving Spanish galleons, pirates and the like, sailing through stormy seas. Little did I realize that I had had a couple of my Father’s ancestors who had served in the Royal Navy, and had actually learned their seamanship on such vessels. Although, it must be said, at the time that they were serving their country, it was the end of an era for that type of sailing ship. The Royal Navy was then rapidly changing from wooden-walled fighting ships to the more modern type of iron-clad steamships.

Both types of vessel are now old-fashioned and primitive by today’s standards, and life aboard ship, for an able-seaman and a stoker ---- which my ancestors were ---- would have been incredibly hard, and not without its dangers. To the best of my knowledge they never earned any medals ---- and may not have even fought in any major sea battles ---- but they served their country at a time when Britannia really did rule the waves. They also visited places around the world, which were largely unseen and unknown areas to their generation ---- which, through my eyes makes them ‘adventurers’.

I was only ever vaguely aware that some of my ancestors, had been so poor that they had to visit the workhouse for a dole of foodstuffs because they had no food or money at home. Some, who were even more unfortunate, either started or finished their lives in orphanages or workhouses. Fortunately, for me, although my own parents were never well-off financially, we were never that poor. However, I can recall occasions standing with my Mum outside butchers shops ---- after the war ---- when meat was still rationed ---- whilst she wondered whether she had enough money or ‘coupons’ in her purse to buy us 4 ounces ( 100gms) of ham as a treat. That minute quantity would have had to have been shared between the three of us ---- Mum, Dad and myself ---- and would’ve cost something like 1s.6d. in ‘old money’, or, 7½ p in today’s currency .

Some of the areas in which my ancestors lived, left a lot to be desired. They tended to live in the poorer areas of London and Croydon. For them, there was no such thing as centrally heated, double-glazed, semi-detached houses, fitted with bathrooms and toilets, that had a seemingly endless supply of hot and cold running water. Theirs, would possibly have been a largish house, poorly built, with two or three families living it. There could have been upwards of a dozen or more people living in one house ---- each family renting a couple of rooms ---- some of the rooms being in the attic, or in the basement. There were no bathroom facilities, and only a very basic outside toilet, with no flushing water. Until the mid to latter part of the 19th century there was no running water in many homes; therefore, when water was required, it had to be collected from a tap or pump in the yard. Several houses would have shared that tap or pump. The water came up from underground wells that were perilously close to evil smelling cess-pits, which had a habit of seeping their liquid into the wells that provided water for the people. Illness and disease, over the centuries, has always ravaged the poor and needy in London, and it was still rife in the 1800s through to the early part of the 1900s.

In the absence of electricity, lighting would have been provided by using candles or oil lamps. Gas lighting did not start getting into houses until sometime after the mid 1800’s. Electricity, for lighting homes, wasn’t generally available until after the First World War, c. 1918 ---- and my Gran and ‘Pop’ didn’t have electricity installed in their house until after the Second World War, c.1946. My wife’s foster Grandmother, Nannie Stone, who lived in a block of flats off of the Old Kent Road, was still using gas lighting up until she died in the 1960’s ---- she never ever had the benefit of electricity in her home.

It wasn’t until I came to trying to find out about my paternal Grandfather, John Mills, who had drowned in an accident at sea, in 1907, whilst serving with the Royal Navy, that I suddenly realized just how little I knew about my immediate forebears. Not to mention, any of my ancestors that preceded them! Because of this, my interest in my family’s origins and backgrounds, widened somewhat, and I decided to explore our ‘history’ and try to put my findings down into some semblance of order, so that it might have some interest to my grandchildren in years to come.

So, if you have just picked up this booklet, and thumbed through some of its pages, you will be aware by now that I have written it with the aim of shedding some light on my family, to show where we came from.

I have entitled it Wednesday’s Child, with the intention writing other booklets, all under the same running title. This first one covers my Father’s family background, and will be followed by another that will deal with my Mother’s family.

There is no way that either of these could be described as being ‘definitive’ family histories, as there are too many ‘unknowns’ on both sides for them to be wholly accurate. Nevertheless, I am hoping that they will give an indication as to where the families originated from, and where they were living over the centuries. Also, to give an idea as to the hardships that they may have endured during those times.

Hopefully, subsequent booklets will then follow. Part Three will deal with my parent’s lives from when they were born in 1905 ---- through to their marriage in 1930 ---- my birth in 1938 ---- the start of World War II in 1939 ---- up until the Spring of 1941, when my own life and memories began to take shape.

From the Spring of 1941, I intend recalling some details of my own life, breaking it down into approximately seven or eight year periods, right up until the moment that I have to stop ----- for whatever reason! By doing it in such a way, it will enable me to work on different sections, as the mood takes me. It will also (hopefully) make it easier for me to amend, add, or delete passages as necessary ---- thus making very generous allowances for my ‘grasshopper memory’ ---- and ensuring that I achieve as much chronological accuracy as possible.

The reason I have decided to call the series Wednesday’s Child is because, whenever my dear old Mum and I talked about the circumstances of my birth, she constantly reminded me that I was born on the 13th July 1938, at 2.30pm, on a miserably wet Wednesday afternoon. Strangely, whilst she was alive, I never really ironed out with her as to whether she remembered the exact timing so pointedly because, (a) it was the joyous day on which I entered her life, or (b) merely because it had been a ‘miserably wet afternoon’!

The idea of writing a series of booklets, has been largely brought about by the fact that I have reached that ‘certain age’, where one looks back over one’s life and realizes just how quickly it has all passed.

As a child, and as a young adult, I merely lived for the day and cared little about the past. My parents, grandparents and other relatives were all extremely kind, loving and attentive, but in those days, I never ever thought the time would come when they would no longer be around. Consequently, I rarely asked any questions about their early lives. And, even if any ‘ancestors’ were mentioned, I paid precious little heed to what was being said about them. That is something I now regret! Mind you, I do tend to think that this is trait which affects most ‘young generations’ ---- and is not something that just applied to me! To a certain extent, I can see the self-same thing happening with my own children and grandchildren. They don’t ask many questions about ‘family’, but ---- like me ---- the day will come, when they will eventually want to ask a question, and they will realize that they too have missed their opportunity. Therefore if I write down what I know, it might go some way to answering any questions they might have in the future.

I am now into my 69th year, and to my mind, I really haven’t done anything with my life that could even vaguely be construed, as being worthy enough to warrant it being committed to paper. What’s more, the very idea that somebody might actually want to read about it, or about my ancestors, seems about as likely as me being given a trip to the moon!

At the very outset, the best that I can boast, is that my life has covered a period of time where vast changes have taken place in the world ---- none of which are attributable to me! The changes that have taken place in my lifetime have been quite amazing, and most certainly would have been unimaginable to my ancestors that lived back in the 1800's and early 1900's. Similarly, if my descendants should ever decide to give me a thought, they would probably find it just as unimaginable for me to have lived through times which will seem quite primitive to them. So maybe, just ‘maybe’, my story might hold a modicum of interest for anyone leafing through its pages.

Because I have never attempted anything like this before, I do have some doubts as to whether or not I will ultimately achieve my goal. However, I am hoping that my Maker, will grant me the will-power to carry it through, the ability to make it interesting ---- and perhaps more importantly ---- the time to get it all down on paper! Whatever the eventual outcome of Wednesday’s Child, I know that I will have appreciated the excuse that the idea affords. Not only will it have enabled me to research my family’s history, it will have also allowed me to sit quietly and recall memories of family and friends, all of whom have played their part over the years to make my life so enjoyable ---- and I thank everyone for

Prior to my starting out on this idea of trying to discover my ancestors, I actually knew very little about my Dad’s family. Right from an early age, I had realized that my Dad, John Mills, had a completely different surname to his mother, who was Ellen Joy ---- and known to me as Grannie Joy. I suppose, back in my early childhood, I must have asked why their names were different and accepted what I was told, without question.

Basically, I was told that my Dad’s own father, who was also called John Mills, had been orphaned as a young boy, and placed aboard a training ship on the Thames, in preparation for a ‘career’ in the Royal Navy.

By 1904, whilst serving with the Royal Navy, he had met and married my Gran. A year later they had a son, who was destined to become my Father. Unfortunately, just three years later, at 26 years of age, Grandad was drowned in a tragic accident at sea. It happened in the Sea of Marmora, just off of the Turkish coast. Gran, unexpectedly widowed, found herself left with a 2 year-old son to bring up, and precious little money to help her. There wasn’t much in the way of financial or social help in those days, so her future must have looked pretty bleak. Fortunately, the fates smiled on her, and Gran married for a second time in 1908. Her second husband, who was Arthur Joy, became my Dad’s step-father. Although Gran took on her new husband’s surname when she married him, my Dad retained the Mills surname of his true father. Hence the reason my Gran and my Dad had different surnames.

Because all this happened when my Dad was so young, he had little or no recollection of his own father. Although he was well-treated by his stepfather, and looked upon him as a real father, my Dad did admit to me, towards the end of his own life, that he wished that he had known more about his own father. Therefore, in some respects, I am partially doing this ‘family history’ thing for him, in an effort to find out more about the man we never knew.

The trouble was, other than one solitary photograph taken of my true Grandfather, wearing his naval uniform, the only documentary evidence that I had of his existence, was his name on my Gran’s first marriage certificate ---- the details of which, appear on the following page:-

From their certificate, I could see that my Grandfather’s name was the same as my Dad’s ---- i.e., John Mills ---- and that my Grandmother’s maiden name had been Nellie Ellen Roff. It also showed that their marriage had taken place at the Roman Catholic Church of Our Lady and St. Philip Neri, in Lower Sydenham, on the 13 January 1904, and that they were both 23 years-old. It also gave me the names of their respective fathers.

Grandad’s father was George Mills, who had been a labourer, and was shown on the certificate as ‘deceased’ at the time of his son’s wedding. Gran’s father, was Edwin Roff, who was still alive at that time, and worked as a bricklayer’s labourer.

By performing a simple calculation, since they were both 23 years of age when they married in 1904, it showed that my grandparents had been born c.1881.

Although, at that stage, I wasn’t really involved in family history research, I had read one or two simple books on the subject, plus purchasing some Family History magazines to see if they would help me to find out how to learn more about my Grandad. The books and magazines didn’t exactly provide me with any of the answers I wanted, but they did help to point me in the right direction in which to look.

Further research enabled me to obtain a copy of my Grandad’s birth certificate, which showed he had that he was actually born on the 7 May 1881, at 18, Golding Road, Sevenoaks, in Kent. That certificate, detailed on the following page, also provided me with the names of his parents, namely, George and Emily Mills, which told me that they were my paternal Great Grandparents. George’s occupation was given as him being a labourer, and that Emily’s maiden name had been ‘Fuller’.

A quick look at a current street map of Sevenoaks, showed that Golding Road was still in existence. I then felt the need to visit Sevenoaks, to see if I could locate the actual house in which he was born, and where my Great Grandparents had lived some 120 years ago. To my delight I found the house, and although I wasn’t able to physically go inside it, I was able to take the picture on the following page showing how it looked in 2004: -

Having obtained a copy of his birth certificate, showing the family’s address at the time he was born, and having gained ‘advice’ from the various books and magazines, I decided to check the 1881 Census for their home at 18, Golding Road, Sevenoaks.

Censuses have been carried out every ten years since 1841, and it just so happened that the census in 1881, had taken place just one month prior to my Grandad being born. Although I realized that my Grandad’s name would not appear on that particular census return for 1881, I knew that it would give me an idea as to who was living there on that census night. I therefore went ahead, and obtained a copy of the 1881 census return for the house at 18, Golding Road, Sevenoaks ---- (Census No. RG11 - Folio 0908/25 - Page 46, refers). It gave me the ages, occupations and places of birth of all the members of their household at that time: -

Strangely, it showed the head of the house as being a Henry Mills and not the George Mills, that I had expected from reading my Grandfather’s birth certificate. His mother’s name, Emily Mills, appeared correctly on the return, which also revealed that my Grandfather had had an older brother and sister; William aged 6 years, and Edith, who was just 5 years old. I cannot remember either my Dad, or my Gran, ever mentioning these two siblings to me, if indeed, they ever knew of them. After all, the family story had it, that my Grandad had been orphaned at an early age, in which case, perhaps the children had been split up for some reason and maybe he never knew that he had an older brother and sister.

Unfortunately for me, by the time the next census came along in 1891 the family was no longer living at the address in Golding Road. In fact, they seemed to have disappeared completely ---- which, together with the information I had been told about my Grandad ---only added credence to the belief that my Grandad a had been orphaned at a very young age.

Not being able to proceed any further forward than the 1881 census, I then decided to try and track down when and where my Grandparents, George and Emily Mills had got married. I knew from the 1881 census that George (or Henry) had been born in Bridgwater, Somerset, and his wife, at Edenbridge, in Kent. Since the census had indicated that Emily was 30 years old in 1881, and the age of their first child, William, was 6 years old, it seemed reasonable to assume that Emily had married George, possibly in her early twenties, which would have been c.1871. It also seemed likely, as most brides have tended to marry in the town or village where they were born, that Emily and George might have got married in her home town of Edenbridge.

A search of the Marriage Records revealed that revealed that there was indeed a marriage for a George Mills and Emily Fuller in Edenbridge in 1871. An application for a copy of their Marriage Certificate, showed that the couple were married at Edenbridge Parish Church, on the 3 May 1871.

Although the 1871 Census for Edenbridge took place a month before they married, I thought it might show where the couple was living at that time. Unfortunately, although Emily’s parents and siblings were mentioned in the census return, I couldn’t find any mention of George and Emily themselves. Where they were at that census-time is anyone’s guess!

As a matter of interest, the following is a table showing who was living with Emily’s parents on that census night, at No.9, Goodwin Cottages, Edenbridge.

I mentioned earlier, that in the 1881 Census for Sevenoaks, George Mills had appeared as ‘Henry’ instead of ‘George’ ---- and at that time I couldn’t understand why! However, looking at the above-mentioned table showing details from the 1871 census, covering Emily’s family at Edenbridge, it can be seen that there were already two Georges ---( father & son) ---- in her family. Could it have been, that Emily’s family decided to call the ‘newcomer’ ---- George Mills ---- ‘Henry’ instead? Perhaps his second name was Henry! Maybe it was done to avoid confusion as to which of the ‘Georges’ people were referring to!

Having discovered Emily’s family in the 1871 census, and also, from their marriage certificate, that George Mills’s father’s name was William Mills, I thought I should endeavour to track down his family origins in Bridgwater, Somerset, which was shown as his place of birth on the 1881 census.

My somewhat unsuccessful attempt to locate George Mills' family origins in Bridgewater, Somerset.

The 1881 census had shown me that my Grandad, George Mills, was 32 years old, on that census night. However, his age as shown on his marriage certificate indicated that he was 25 years old when he married Emily Fuller in 1871. Because, it seems that the ages shown in census returns could be 'suspect' I decided that perhaps it might be wise to look for his birth from 1845 through to 1850 ---- just in case!

However, although I tried looking for his birth, I found absolutely nothing on him, or his father. I felt that I was probably lacking in experience for researching family history, so I approached a company called Somerset Ancestral Research to see if they could help me to trace my Great Grandad's birth. Unfortunately, their attempts to trace them also came to naught. Nevertheless, the details of their searches did make for interesting reading, and showed me the difficulties involved in trying to confirm who my ancestors might have been.

Initially, they checked the 1851 census for Bridgwater and its surroundings for a William Mills, and then went on to check the whole of Somerset for him. Their research found four men called William Mills residing at Crewkerne, with others at Castle Cary, Taunton St. Mary, Taunton St. James, Wilton and Otterford. Apparently, all the Mills's they discovered, were of an age to have been fathers, but further research failed to show any of them with a son named George or Henry, and certainly, with no Bridgwater connections.

There was just one Mills folio at Bridgwater, and that was for a widowed Eliza, aged 36 and born at Spaxton, Somerset, with two sons, Joseph (9) and James (2), both born at Bridgwater. Just in case there had been a misspelling somewhere, they also checked for folios under the surname of Miles in the 1851 Bridgwater census. The researchers also examined a large number of baptisms from 1846 - 1851 at the Bridgwater Anglican Churches of St. Mary, St. John and Holy Trinity, but were still unsuccessful.

There was one very slight possibility that they had found, under the Bridgwater Union Workhouse census. There were two folios under the surname of 'Miles'. Perhaps they should have been 'MILLS' ---- but written down as 'MILES', by mistake!

Apparently the tendency was to segregate persons in the workhouse, but these people appeared to be related. There, listed under the surname of Miles was an Amelia Miles, age 28, who was unmarried and had been born at Spaxton, Somerset ---- just a few miles from Bridgwater. She was described as being a General Servant, and was there with her two sons, Henry, aged 6, and Francis aged 4 months, both of whom were born at Exeter, Devon.

It was also pointed out to me, that the widowed Eliza Mills ---- whose name appeared in the 1851 Bridgwater census, who would obviously have had a different maiden name ---- had also been born in Spaxton. Searches of the baptisms at that parish were also carried out, but still failed to reveal an Amelia under the names of either Miles or Mills.

The researchers advised me that such things have turned out like that on many occasions, and although the Henry Miles born to Amelia, circa 1845 might possibly be my forebear, it would be quite impossible to confirm it as fact. If indeed, it had been the case, the chances are that Henry may possibly have grown up thinking that he had been born in Bridgwater, rather than Exeter, since he would have been quite young when he originally moved from Exeter with his mother.

Unfortunately, it now looks as though I have reached a stalemate situation with regard to the origins of my Great Grandfather, George (or Henry) Mills and his father William. I will of course continue to search for more information about them but the possibility of finding any seems somewhat doubtful.

Anyway, it is obvious that George (or Henry) Mills definitely existed, and at some stage, he must have left Somerset to make his way into Kent. Whether it was his family/mother that made the move with him whilst he was still young, or whether he made the journey on his own, as a young man seeking work, is not known.

Therefore, having 'failed' in the area of finding out when my Great Grandad George Mills was born, or anything about his parents, I turned my attention to finding out about Emily Fuller's family background.

Quite why my Great Grandad, George Mills, left Bridgwater in Somerset, to make his way to Edenbridge in Kent, where he married Emily, still eludes me. However, their marriage certificate, together with my Grandad's birth certificate, both showing that Emily's maiden name had been Fuller, was all the confirmation I needed to say that they were definitely one set of my paternal Great Grandparents.

With the knowledge gained from their marriage certificate I was then able to check the census years for the Fuller family in Edenbridge, from 1841 through to 1891 ----- although I didn't actually search them in that order!

Young Emily only gets a mention in the 1851 census, when she was just 2 years old, and is seen to be the daughter of George and Sarah Fuller ---- who were my paternal 2 x Great Grandparents.

As can be seen, from that table, there was one person living in the family's home on that census night in 1851, whose name was not Fuller. That person, was a 'retired tanner', called James Chappell. He was said to be a widower, 75 years of age, who had been born at High Wycombe, in Buckinghamshire. It also indicated that he was a Grandfather to the Head of the House.

Initially, my mind blanked out his relationship to the head of the household, and I merely took it to mean that he was Grandfather to George and Sarah Fuller's children. Consequently, I laboured under that misapprehension for some considerable time. Even after tracking down George Fuller's marriage to Sarah Chappell at Edenbridge Parish Church in 1840, I still continued with the thought that James Chappell was the grandfather to their children.

It wasn't until I had contact with another person who was researching the Fuller family in Edenbridge, that I came to realize that James Chappell wasn't the grandfather of George and Sarah Fuller's children. Instead, he was the Grandfather of Sarah Fuller herself, and not her father, as I had mistakenly thought.

The person that I was in contact with, was a Dave Fuller, who it would appear is distantly related to me. George and Sarah Fuller are our (i.e. his, and my, 2 x Gt. G/parents). My Great Grandma, Emily Mills (née Fuller) was the sister of Dave's Great G/dad, George Fuller.

I must admit to feeling quite excited when I found James Chappell's name on the1851 census return. I don't know why I felt so excited, after all, I didn't know anything about the man. He wasn't, as far as I knew, 'famous' ---- and his name had not filtered down through the family as him being a 'character'.

It was probably due to the fact that he was the very first ancestor that I had found, who was born in the 1700's. Until that moment, I hadn't really given much thought about the possibility of having ancestors back in the mists of time, but suddenly, there I was, the proud possessor of a 4 x Great Grandfather. Immediately, I wanted to know more about him ---- but how much, could I really discover?

His occupation, as shown on the 1851 census return, had indicated that he was a retired tanner, and that he had been born in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire. Why had he 'migrated' from his birth place to Edenbridge in Kent ---- and when had the move taken place?

I decided to see what else I could learn, by looking for his name in the previous census for Edenbridge, which had taken place in 1841. It showed, that he was even living with George and Sarah Fuller at that time, in Edenbridge Street ---- but his age was given as being 60 years old. This was at variance with the 1851 census, ten years later, which had indicated he was 75 years old.

Ages shown on early census returns, are known for their lack of accuracy. Sometimes the enumerators were instructed to round ages up or down five years. Also, the people themselves, who were not necessarily very well educated a century or so ago, might not have known their exact date, or even, the exact year of their birth, and merely 'guessed' what their ages were. Imagine what it must have been like with large families comprising eight or more people, possibly with no written records in the house, to have to suddenly remember, when asked, the ages, or the dates of birth, of various members of their family. Therefore, I have to view James Chappell's age of 60 years in the 1841 census, and ten years later in the 1851 census, as being 75 years, with some degree of caution. Consequently, it makes it difficult to pin down his actual date of birth, which currently seems to lie between 1776 and 1780.

Although I haven't proven it for myself, as yet, my contact, David Fuller, seems to have found that James Chappell was married twice. His first marriage was to a Sarah, in 1796, whose maiden name isn't yet known. It would appear that they had several children together, namely:-

According to Dave Fuller, it seems that James's first wife Sarah, died in 1829, probably in Edenbridge. Shortly after her death, James married his second wife, Maria Jeffery, in Edenbridge. I haven't found any children from that second marriage, and I wonder if it was childless marriage. James himself, would have been about 53 years old when he married Maria. The chances are, that Maria may have been older than James, in which case, it is doubtful that the marriage produced any children. It would also seem that his marriage to Maria only lasted ten years, as she died in 1839.

As I have already mentioned, when the 1841 census for Edenbridge was taken, the twice widowed James Chappell, was living with George and Sarah Fuller ---- Sarah, being James's granddaughter! There were no children living in the house at that time, which tends to make me think that there were no children from James's marriage to Maria.. If there had been children from that marriage, they would probably have been under 12 years old, and the chances are that they would have still been living with James.

Of the five children from James Chappell's first marriage, the one that ties in with my family, is his eldest son James, who was born in c.1800.

Quite where this particular James was born, isn't certain, but according to Pallot's Marriage Index, it shows that a James Chappell married an Elizabeth Stedall on the 26 April 1818 at the Church of St. George the Martyr in Horsleydown, Surrey. Then, three years later, on the 21 December 1821, the couple gave birth to their daughter, Sarah Chappell, also at Horsleydown in Surrey.

Now, whether or not, the James Chappell (b.1776) ---- Sarah's Grandfather ---- was living in Horsleydown when his first two children, namely James (b.1800) and Henry (b.1805), were born, isn't known. However, by the time the first of his daughters, Harriet, was born in 1807, it looks as though the Chappell family were living in Edenbridge.

In which case, did the young James Chappell (b1800) move to Horsleydown from Edenbridge'

His father ---- James Chappell (b. 1776) ---- had been a tanner during his working life and had probably worked in the tannery at Edenbridge. He may even have worked in the tannery at Horsleydowns, but I have no way of knowing that at present! The chances are, that the James Chappell (b.1800) would also have followed in his father's footsteps, and possibly he too may have worked in the tannery trade. And, if so, it might have been the reason that he was living in Horsleydown when he married Elizabeth Stedall and started his own family.

So far, I have been unable to trace the movements of James and Elizabeth after their daughter, Sarah's birth. Perhaps they all moved down to the Edenbridge area to be close to the rest of the Chappell family.

Alternatively, young James Chappell and Sarah might have died in Horsleydowns, and left the young Sarah as an orphan! In which case, Sarah might well have gone to live with her Grandfather in Edenbridge, who already had two youngish daughters of his own (Ruth and Eliza), who would probably still have been living with their father and mother. If this was the case, and Sarah grew up in Edenbridge, that would explain how she came to meet up with her husband-to-be, George Fuller.

We know that Sarah's grandfather's first wife died c.1829, and that he married Maria Jeffery shortly afterwards. If Sarah was living with them at that time, she would only have been about 9 years old, and her Grandfather's two daughters, ( Ruth and Eliza), would have been about 16 and 14 years of age, respectively. Perhaps it was the 'burden' of having three young ladies to bring up, that prompted him to marry Maria so soon after losing his first wife.

When his second wife, Maria died, in 1839, young Sarah Chappell ---- who would have been about 18 years old at that time ---- was probably on the verge of marrying George Fuller, which she did on the 8 February 1840. In so doing, if Sarah had indeed been brought up by her Grandfather, then the chances are, when she married George Fuller, she probably returned the 'favour' to her Grandfather by looking after him, in his old age.

Further research enabled me to obtain a copy of Sarah Chappell's marriage to George Fuller, the details of which, is shown here:-

The details show that my 2 x Gt. Grandfather George Fuller, was of 'Full Age' when he married Sarah Chappell, whereas she was 'Under Age'. In the early half of the 19th century it was not compulsory to give the correct age on marriage. 'Full Age' tended to mean 21 years or over, whereas ---- 'Minor' or 'Under Age' ---- meant between 12 and 20 years of age for a girl, or between 14 and 20 years of age for a boy.

Since George had been born c.1812, then he was about 28 years old when he married Sarah. She, however, having been born in 1821 was only about 19 years old ---- some nine years his junior! The age gap doesn't appear to have caused any problems as the couple went on to live into their eighties, and must have had a marriage that lasted some fifty years or so.

Their marriage details also show their father's names and occupations. George's father was John Fuller, a labourer, and that Sarah's was definitely James Chappell, a tanner. Which goes to show that the young James Chappell had followed in his father's footsteps, and also worked in the leather-making industry. Therefore, I suppose that it is conceivable that Sarah's father could have worked in the tanneries situated at Edenbridge and Horsleydowns.

Horsleydowns, as a place, no longer exists under that name. It was the area that sat between London's Tooley Street and the River Thames. It was amalgamated into Bermondsey at the end of the 19th century, and today comes under the London Borough of Southwark. In a contemporary book written by Walter Besant in 1898, he described the area of Horsleydowns at that time, as being :-

In the 1800's the buildings that were standing on that narrow strip of land between Tooley Street and the Thames were predominantly wooden properties that were built close together in narrow streets, and conspired to make the area an unhealthy place to live. A cholera epidemic made itself felt in Horsleydowns towards the middle of the century; and, if that wasn't trouble enough, in 1861 a great fire raged through the area for several weeks, fuelling itself on the vulnerable wooden buildings. The area was home to many trades, a lot of which were allied to the animal trade, which resulted in masses of burning fat from the warehouses floating down the river and setting alight small boats as it encompassed them. For months afterwards, it was said that local people waded into the river and skimmed off the floating fat. (Quite what they did with the fat that they skimmed off, isn't mentioned ---- and one wonders what they used it for!)

The were many important trades that carried out their work in Horsleydowns, over the centuries, but the one that ties in with some of my ancestors, is the leather industry, although I cannot be absolutely certain that either my 4 times or 3 times Great Grandfathers ever worked there. The leather industry in that area dates back to the Middle Ages, and after Queen Anne granted the leather-workers a charter in 1703, it grew to become a main leather-working centre.

On the whole, 'finished' products made from leather are in many cases 'works of art'. They are lovely to handle and the finished articles have a delightfully distinctive smell that encourages people to 'sniff' them, just to see if the leather is real. However, the processes involved in the manufacture of leather in those days were absolutely revolting, and the smells were quite noxious. So much so, the trade was not welcomed in the City itself , and had to establish itself on the Surrey, or south side of the river.

The fact that the trade wasn't welcomed in the city wasn't particularly detrimental, as it was able to establish itself in an area where it was, in some ways a more advantageous position. Some of the elements used in the processing of the skins were readily available. The Thames, because it was tidal, was capable of supplying large quantities of water for the use of the tanners and leather-dressers, twice, in every twenty-four hours. Because the Surrey side of the river was more rural at that time, oak leaves used in the processing of the skins, were readily available. Added to this, the hides used in leather-making mostly came from London's butchers and slaughterers, which were sent over to the Skin Market in Bermondsey. Labour was cheaper on that side of the river, and once the finished product was ready for sale, there was a good market for it over in the City.

Other related trades flourished around the leather trade. The wool and hair which was separated from the skins was used for hat making. Animal horns were used to make combs, spoons, knife-handles etc., so that no part of the dead animal was ever wasted.

A company called Bevingtons started manufacturing leather in 1801 at their Neckinger Mill in Bermondsey. It is possible, that my forebears may have worked for that company ---- although at present I don't know how to prove if that was the case. One of the sons of the Bevington family chose to learn the practical side of the trade. In his old age, he gave an interview in the 1970s and spoke about his first day in the family's leather-works in the 1920s. Although he started work one hundred years on from when any of my ancestors would have worked in the trade, it gives a brief idea of why it was considered such a 'noxious trade'.

He also described the huge machines used for 'glazing', 'boarding', 'printing' and 'buffing' the skins:-

He also recalled that he was paid £3 for a full week's work, and that the day would begin very early and would not finish until 7pm.

Tanning in Edenbridge dates back to the late 1400s, and was carried out at various sites, until it eventually centred itself in the middle of Edenbridge at what was known as Whitmore's Tannery. The quality of their tanning was well known, and because of the demand, the Whitmore family, expanded the tannery's capabilities in the mid-1800s which provided employment for a workforce of some 70 local people. I don't suppose the processes involved in making the leather at Edenbridge was noticeably different from the processes at Horsleydowns, and therefore the people of Edenbridge would have 'enjoyed' similar smells hanging over their town, right up until the tannery closed in 1974.

As can be seen by the details from the 1851 census (see page 9), George and Sarah ---- my 2 x Gt. Grandparents were married and had established a family of their own. Their first daughter, Mary A. Fuller was said to be 9 years old at that time, which indicates that she must have been born about 1843. Thereafter, their other children seemed to 'arrive' at intervals of two years. Henry was born c. 1844; 'young' George, around about 1846; Emily ---- who was to become my Great Gran --- was born in 1848. The last child listed on that census was 'young' Sarah who was just 3 months old when the census was taken. Also in the house was my 3 x Gt. Grandfather, James Chappell, the retired tanner.

My Gt. Gt. Grandfather, George Fuller, who was born at Hever in 1812, was the son of a labourer. I am assuming, since Hever was in the heart of the Kent countryside, that his father was an agricultural labourer, and not a general or builder's labourer. As agriculture was in decline in the 1800's perhaps George decided it would be better to take up a different sort of occupation to that of his father, and became a cordwainer instead.

A 'cordwainer', is another name for a boot and shoe-maker. The word itself, is derived from an area in Spain, called Cordoba, noted for its fine black Morocco leathers, which were known as 'cordwain' or 'cordovan'. Whether or not, George, was actually skilled in making boots and shoes from fine leathers, or whether 'cordwainer' was a general name for shoe-makers, is something I'm not too sure about. I'm inclined to think, that he possibly worked in, or for the tannery in Edenbridge ---- although in the 1891 census, at the age of 78, he is shown as being a cordwainer, and 'working on his own account' ---- which seems to indicate that he was 'self-employed'!

The tools used in making of footwear, at least up until the middle of the 19th century, hadn't really changed much since the time of the Egyptians. An Egyptian sandal-maker, 3500 years ago, would have had a basic kit containing a curved awl for making holes in leather, and a chisel-type knife and a scraper. By the 1850's, only a few other items had been added to the shoemaker's complement of tools ----- namely, pincers, a hammer and a lapstone, upon which they would beat the leathers. In addition to these, the cordwainer would have had a variety of 'rubbing' sticks which he used for finishing edges and heels.

Before the days of mass production, the cordwainer would have started to make a pair of shoes, or boots, by making an outline of the sole of his customers foot. He would then, whittle or chisel a piece of wood into the rough size and shape of the 'footprint'. This imitation foot was known as a 'last' ---- which is derived from the Old English word 'laest', meaning 'a footprint'. A last does not have the exact same size and dimensions of the foot it was originally 'out-lined' from. It is purely a shape that is similar to an anatomical foot, and is sufficiently different in size to enable the various processes for making of the shoe to be carried out. Also, up until the 1850's most shoes were made on straight lasts, with absolutely no difference between the right and left shoe. 'Breaking in' a new pair of shoes was not easy, and one's poor old feet suffered considerably in the process. There were only two widths to a shoe size; a basic last was used to produce what was known as a

'slim' shoe. When a 'fat' or 'stout' one was required, the shoemaker would place a cone of the last pad of leather over the last to create the additional foot room necessary.

In its day, prior to machines being used in the industry, footwear made in Edenbridge had an excellent name in Croydon, London and elsewhere. Whether this good name came from fashionable shoes and boots made from 'fine leathers' or merely from the quality of the leather used in making the soles, is something I haven't discovered. The tannery at Edenbridge was noted for the toughness of its leather, which made it eminently suitable for making the soles of boots and shoes ---- and stood up well to the hard wear they received from the unmade roads around Edenbridge. It is also said, that because the footwear had to take such a hard pounding ---- there was also reasonable livelihood for numerous shoe-repairers in that area.

From about 1840, as the century progressed, and mechanization entered the trade, the industry in Edenbridge slid into a steady decline. At one time, there had been over seventy 'hands' working at shoe-making. Even the flax used in sewing

the leathers was grown, dried and spun locally. It was spun by old women and sold by them at four pence a ball (in 'old' money).

Although I'm happy to think that my 2x Gt. Grandfather, George Fuller may have been one of the very last cordwainers working in Edenbridge, I don't really have such a comfortable feeling, when I consider the circumstances that may have put him in that position. In the 1891 census he was shown to be 78 years old, and 'working on his own account'. Was he still having to work at that age to eke out a living for himself and his wife, because they didn't have a pension or any other monies to live on' He died c.1895 at the age of 82. Did he, I wonder, have to work right up until the day he died'

As far as I can see, the Fuller family lived in Edenbridge, for most of the 1800s. Their names appear in all the censuses from 1841 right through to 1901.

In 1841 their home was said to be in Edenbridge Road, which I take to be the road that runs from Marlpit Hill down past the two railway stations through to Dencross. Today, it is split into three sections ---- Main Road (up by Marlpit Hill) ---- Station Road ---- the High Street (through the main part of town) ---- and Mill Hill ( leading down to Dencross).

At the time of the 1851 and 1861 censuses, they were living at Marlpit Hill, Edenbridge.

In 1871, they were living at what was known as No. 9, Goodwin Cottages, Edenbridge. 'Goodwin', being the name of a family of local builders who built the properties at Marlpit Hill.

The 1881 census shows them living at Marlpit Hill, and in the 1891 census, it shows that two Fuller families were living at numbers 9 and 10, Marlpit Hill Cottages.

By the time the 1901 census was taken, my 2 x Gt. Grandparents George and Sarah Fuller had both died, but their son George (b.1845), was still living with his own family at No.10, Marlpitt Hill Row.

The following picture gives a view of Marlpit Hill Cottages as they possibly looked back in the early 1900s ----- I wonder if any of the people pictured, were Fullers!

Unfortunately, when censuses were first introduced, the streets and houses weren't as clearly identifiable with their names and house numbers, as they are today.

Consequently, with the passage of time, and the way that towns and villages have changed over the years, it is sometimes difficult to place exactly where our ancestors lived.

Although the various censuses show slightly differing addresses for the Fuller family, from what I have managed to glean, it would seem that they were all one and the same place. Today, the humble cottage(s) in which they lived are 'listed' properties, and are now known as The Row, Marlpit Hill.

As I mentioned earlier, young Emily Fuller, who was destined to grow up and marry George Mills, and would eventually become my Great Grandma, only had her name mentioned in one of the censuses for Edenbridge ---- namely, the one for 1851 when she was a little over two years old.

By the time the 1861 census took place, both James Chappell (b.1776) and young Emily's names had both disappeared from the household. In all probability 'old' James had probably died. I have found a James Chappel (only one 'L'), whose death was registered in Sevenoaks, during the first quarter of 1859 and entered on Page 266, in Volume 2a of the registers. I haven't as yet checked out whether or not this is 'my' James Chappell, but it could well be! If so, he would have been about 83 years old when he died, and would account for why he doesn't appear in the 1861 census.

Young Emily Fuller would have only been about 12 years old when that census was taken, and her absence from the household on that census night, isn't quite so easily explained away.

Life, was very different to the way that ours is conducted today, and the chances are, although she was still only a child in our eyes, she could very well have been working and living away from home. She could have been employed as a domestic servant, and living at her place of employment. Another possibility, is that she could have been away from home, visiting relatives when the census was taken. Sometimes, in those days, when aunts and older sisters were taken ill, or about to have a baby, it wasn't unusual for a girl of her age to be sent around to their relatives home, with a view to looking after any young children that may be on hand.

To-date, I haven't been able to pick up on her whereabouts for either the 1861 or 1871 censuses ---- nor on the whereabouts of her husband-to-be, in those years.

Was her husband-to-be working and living in Edenbridge prior to their marriage, or had he merely gone there to get married? How and where would they have met each other?

I cannot even pin them down to where they were living after they got married in 1871, although it's possible that they may have lived in Edenbridge for awhile.

At some stage after their marriage they moved to other areas of the country, perhaps looking for labouring work. I still have no idea as to what sort of labourer my Great Grandad George Mills might have been. He could have been an agricultural labourer, a general labourer, a builder's labourer, or he may even have 'laboured' on the railways. Although I cannot substantiate it, my feelings are that he may have been a railway labourer ---- perhaps even a 'navvy'. The couple's movements after their marriage seem to show that all of the places they were known to have been, were either on, or close to railway lines.

According to the 1881 census, their first child, William Mills, was born at Winchfield, Hants in 1875 ---- so presumably the family was living there at that time. That census also shows that, Edith, their second child was born in 1876 at Lamberhurst, in Kent ---- so again, it is presumed that the family must have been living/working in the area at that time.

(1) 1871, at the time of their wedding, and 1875, when their son William was born in 1875 at Winchfield.

(2) From 1876, at Lamberhurst, when Edith was born, until the time of the 1881 census at Sevenoaks.

The fact that they moved from the Winchfield area to the Lamberhurst in the space of what could have been two years, or less ---- could that indicate that they were on the move every couple of years or so?

After the birth of their third child, John Mills ---- my Grandfather-to-be ---- nothing more is known of the family's whereabouts until I made a start at looking into his short life. At which time, I suddenly discovered that George and Emily had had a fourth child, Harry, who, according to the 1891 census, had been born in the Maidstone area. However, I will come to that later!

The fact that they had also moved from Sevenoaks to Maidstone within the space of two years ---- like the Winchfield to Lamberhurst move ---- does seem to indicate that the family might have moved every couple of years or so.

Stagecoaches were still about in the 1800s, but by the middle of the 19th century, especially in London and the South-east of England, railways were spreading themselves out all over the countryside. Consequently, with this faster and infinitely more comfortable means of transport, the demand for stagecoach travel went into a steady decline. By 1900 most, if not all, of the stagecoach companies had ceased to operate. However, whilst railroads were in their infancy, there were nowhere near as many railway stations and cross country links that there are today. The chances are that some form of horse-drawn carriages was still the mode of transport for places that were away from the railway routes.

In fact, in London, when London Bridge, Paddington and Euston Stations were built in the 1830's, because there was no connection between them, the number of horse-drawn buses, the fore-runner of London's omnibuses, increased considerably. In 1850, a traffic count in Cheapside and London Bridge showed that 1000 vehicles a day were passing through these areas, which all added to an incredible amount of manure having to be removed from the streets. On rainy days, straw was scattered in walkways, the fronts of stores, and even in carriages themselves, to soak up the mud and filth.

Could they have afforded to travel about by train, as a family? How did they manage to transport the necessities of everyday life?

If they were moving home every couple of years or so, surely they had household possessions that they had acquired and needed to take with them. By today's standards the possessions may not have amounted to very much, but some of them would have had to be taken to their new home! In the move from Hampshire to Kent, c.1876, not only did Gt. Grandma Emily Mills have her young son, William, who was under 2 years old, to cope with ---- but the chances are that she was also pregnant with her second child, Edith.

As I mentioned earlier, after the 1881 Sevenoaks census, the Mills family 'disappeared' without trace ---- for awhile!

Their 'disappearance', seemed to substantiate the story that my Grandad-to-be, John Mills, had been orphaned at an early age and the thought that some illness or other might have caused the death of his parents --- and perhaps, even caused the death of his siblings ---- William and Edith!

Alternatively, perhaps only the parents died, and all three children were orphaned as a result. If that was the case, and, if they were all quite young, there was always the possibility that they were placed in an orphanage somewhere. Once in the orphanage, and with the passage of time, maybe they become separated somehow and eventually lost contact with one another.

Could they have all survived to adulthood ---- and, if so ---- what happened to William and Edith?

The only thing that I knew for certain was that my Grandad, John Mills, who had been born in 1881, had definitely reached adulthood, joined the Royal Navy, married my Gran, was the father to my Dad; and had been drowned at sea when he was just 26 years old!

Therefore, with this rather scant bit of knowledge, I decided that it was time to try and look into his short life to see what I could find out about him.

Having temporarily 'lost the trail' of my paternal Great Grandparents family, after the birth of my Grandad John Mills in 1881, I decided to try and find out more information about my Grandad, himself. Basically, all that I knew, was he that had been orphaned at an early age, and had been placed on a training ship on the Thames, in preparation for a life at sea, in the Royal Navy, which was when he lost his life in an accident at sea.

Initially, I had to go along with the thought that my Grandad had been orphaned early in life. Consequently, it was a possibility that his parents, and maybe his siblings as well, had all died either as the result of a tragic accident, or from an illness that had run rife in the family.

First port of call for me, was to track down my Grandad's Service Record with the Royal Navy, at the Public Records Office at Kew ---- (now called the National Archives Centre). All that I had, was his name and date of birth. Believing that the Army and Navy only engage men into the services from 18 years of age, it seemed reasonable to assume that I should start looking for his acceptance into the Navy around about 1899. However, I then had the thought that if he had been an orphan, he could have been placed on a Royal Naval training ship as a boy sailor at about 15 or 16 years old ---- and perhaps I should start looking from about 1896 instead.

As luck would have it, I managed to obtain a copy of his service record from the National Archive Centre, which showed that he had indeed been accepted into the Navy as a boy sailor on the 27 June 1896. His first vessel being the Royal Navy's training ship HMS St Vincent based at Portsmouth. It also showed that prior to joining the St Vincent, Grandad's previous employment had been with the Warspite ---- which, I presumed must have the training ship on the Thames, that he was sent to as an 'orphan'.

For some reason Grandad's service record shows his date of birth as the 7 April 1880, instead of the 7 May 1881 as indicated on his birth certificate. Quite how this discrepancy occurred isn't known. It could have been an error on the part of the person who took down my Grandad's details; but if Grandad was an orphan, then he may not have known his correct date of birth. As it stands, his record shows that he was slightly over 15 years old when he joined the Royal Navy as a boy sailor.

Ships, &c, Served in:	List and Number	Rating	Rating	Sub-ratings from	To	Badges	Period of Service From:	Period of Service To:	Character
ST. VINCENT	15 a - 2750	B 2cl	TM	1.6.00	20.11.02	G 17.4.01	27 June 1896
ST. VINCENT	15 a - 2750	B 1cl	QG	21.11.02	24.10.06	G 6.4.06	01 Aprol 1897	01 Nov 1897	V.G.
PEMBROKE I	15 - 8904	B 1cl	JM	25.10.06			02 Nov 1897	25 Jan 1898
VICTORIOUS	15 - 177	B 1cl					26 Jan 1898	10 Feb 1898
CAMPERDOWN	15 - 136	B 1cl					11 Feb 1898		V.G.
CAMPERDOWN	15 - 136	ORD					07 April 1898		V.G. 31/12/98
CRUISER	5 - 371 16 - 1021	ORD					06 May 1899	21 Oct 1899	V.G. 31/12/99
ASTRA EA	15 - 6	ORD					22 Oct 1899		V.G. 31/12/00
ASTRA EA	15 - 6	A B					01 June 1900	12 June 1902	V.G. 31/12/01
PEMBROKE 1	5 - 162 152 - 19569	A B					13 June 1902	02 Sept 1902	V.G. 31/12/02
WILDFIRE	" - 5999	A B					03 Sept 1902	26 Nov 1902	V.G. 31/12/03
PEMBROKE	" - 21712	A B					27 Nov 1902	20 June 1904	V.G. 31/12/04
TRIUMPH	5 - 20	A B					21 June 1904	07 May 1906	V.G. 31/12/05
PEMBROKE	1511 - 21533	A B					08 May 1906	26 Nov 1906	V.G. 31/12/06
IRRESISTIBLE	52 - 199	A B					27 May 1906	23 Aug 1907
IMOGENE	5 - 20	A B					24 Aug 1907	25 Sept 1907

By sheer chance, at the same time as I received the copy of his service details, I was reading a book entitled Anchor and Hope, which had been written by a lady called Jo Anderson about Thames Watermen at the beginning of the 20th century. In one of her chapters, she was reporting some memories of a Thames Sailing Barge sailorman, Charlie Jackson, who had recalled the days when prisoners were kept in hulks on the Thames at Woolwich, saying that:-

The author went on to say that the original Warspite had been towed away to nearby Greenwich in 1901, and that another training ship replaced her, and the name stuck.

Another contributor to her book, Harry Thomas Harris, recalled the Warspite as follows: -

According to the author, what the messages were, remain unrecorded, but according to (her) Grandad, they would have been unprintable. Her uncle, her Grandad's second cousin reckoned: -

After I made some further enquiries through the Chatham Dockyard Historical Society, I found out that the Warspite was a ship loaned by the Admiralty, to a charitable organisation called the Marine Society. This piece of information prompted me to approach the Marine Society, to see if they still had records which might possibly show when my Grandfather had been placed on board their training ship. Also, the records might have given an indication where he had been living prior to that, and whether or not he had nominated any next of kin at that time. In my mind, I was still of the opinion that he had been orphaned, and was curious to know whether his brother William, or his sister, Edith, were still alive, and whether either of them had been nominated as his next of kin.

I contacted the Marine Society's offices in Lambeth Road, South-east London, and was advised that they no longer held the records of the boys that had passed through their hands, and suggested that I contact the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich, who held a lot of their old records. However, they did give me some background to their organisation, and some extracts from an annual report issued in 1901, giving details of the General Routine on board the training ship, the type of clothing supplied to each trainee, and the daily allowance of provisions at that time.

Apparently the Marine Society came into being back in 1756, when Lord Henry Powlett asked another man, Sir John Fielding, who was a London magistrate, if he could provide a number of boys for a ship of his called the Barfleur. Simultaneously, another man, called Jonas Hanway, was also collecting men for service in the King's ships, which was a project already supported by various companies in the City of London. The most notable feature of the scheme was the provision of suitable clothing for the landsmen volunteers, and to invite boys to attend the Society's office where they could obtain some basic education in reading and writing, and to wait until they were applied for by ship's captains or masters. In the first year of operation, some 1580 boys and 1961 men were supplied for service in the King's ships.

At the end of 1763, the Society almost ceased operations, although boys were still assisted in finding work ashore, such as in ropemaking and boatbuilding. A man called William Hickes, who was a Hamburg merchant, made a bequest to the Society, which was the subject of much litigation. However, after 1769, the income from that bequest was used for the training of apprentices, including girls, and enabled the Society to continue its work, strengthened by an Act of Parliament in 1772 for its incorporation.

In 1786 a plan was put forward with a view to training boys, possibly orphans, on board a ship. Then, after some preliminary investigation, it was decided that there was a good mooring on the River Thames between Deptford and Greenwich, for a suitable ship of 400 tons. Twelve tenders of merchant ships were then considered, before settling on a Liverpool vessel called the Beatty, costing £ 650. She was then fitted out with suitable flags and re-named the Marine Society. Careful regulations were duly drawn up, and the number of boys soon reached one hundred. When the ship was eventually considered being beyond economical repair, application was then made to the Admiralty, and two sloops called Thorn and Racehorse, of 16 guns, were provided and successfully used for this purpose.

Later, in 1862, a ship called the Warspite was obtained from the Admiralty to continue this work. The vessel was an old 3rd rate wooden wall, originally comprising 76 guns, which had been launched at Chatham Dockyard in 1807. From that moment onwards, the name of Warspite was preserved for the Society for subsequent replacement vessels. Sadly, that very 'first' Warspite was accidentally burnt at her Woolwich moorings on the 3 January 1876.

The successor to that ship was a 1st rate wooden wall of 120 guns, which had been originally launched as HMS Waterloo at Chatham in June 1833. Twenty-six years later, in 1859, the vessel returned to Chatham Dockyard, and was fitted for Screw propulsion, but retained her full sailing rig. Three more years passed and the vessel's name was changed to HMS Conqueror --- after a ship of that name (1855 - 1861), was lost.

Then, when the Conqueror took up her moorings at Woolwich on the 11 August 1876, the ship was renamed Warspite as a replacement to the one that had been lost by fire earlier that year.

By a strange quirk of fate, that 'replacement' Warspite was also accidentally burnt at her moorings on the 20 January 1918. At first, I tried to work out which of the Warspite vessels my Grandfather would have been on, by using the information that I had found in the book Anchor and Hope. However, the Watermen's memories of the vessel in use in their day did not quite tally with the information that I subsequently received from the Marine Society and the Chatham Dockyard Historical Society. Therefore, I am inclined to think that my Grandad must have trained aboard the Warspite, as pictured above, which had been on loan from the Admiralty from 11 August 1876. However, I have no doubt that all boys serving on whichever Warspite was being used, were always mischievous.

One of the things that has amazed me whilst researching Grandad's naval career, is how old the training ships were. Take the particular Warspite which he must have trained on. At the time the vessel was loaned to the Marine Society it was already 43 years old; when my Grandad first clambered aboard the ship, it was 63; and by the time it went up in flames in 1918, it had notched up 85 years service.

Having found out when Grandad entered the Royal Navy as a boy sailor, I was curious to know when he actually joined the training ship on the Thames, and decided that a trip to the National Maritime Museum was called for ----- to examine the Marine Society's records. It wasn't a difficult exercise, but it looked as though it was going to be a slow process looking through the ledgers, peering at the names of all the boys that had passed through their hands. What I didn't know, was how long boys were on the training ship prior to being accepted into the Royal Navy. Was it weeks, months or years? Where should I start looking? The boys names were listed in alphabetical order under their year of posting to the vessel.

So, having casually browsed through the ledgers, and not really knowing where to start, I decided that it possibly took no longer in 1896 to train a boy in basic seamanship, than it did for me to do my basic training to become a 'soldier' for my National Service in 1957. That, took just three months! Using the three months as a guideline, I decided to double it ---- just in case ---- and started my search six months before my Grandfather was accepted into the Royal Navy. Fortunately, I found that I had made the right decision, and within a matter of minutes, I found his name and the date he joined the Warspite, which turned out to be the 21 January 1896.

Reading along the line containing his name, it showed that he was born on 7 April 1880, and that his age was 15 years and 9 months. It also shows that he was 5ft 1ins tall at the time he joined the ship. However, his actual birth certificate shows that he was born on the 7 May 1881, which means that he was really only 14 years and 8months old when he was accepted by the Marine Society.

Earlier, I passed comment about whether this was an error on the part of the person completing Grandad's details when he entered the Royal Navy, but obviously the anomaly concerning his date of birth stems from when he actually joined the Marine Society's training ship. Thinking about it at the time, I thought that there was every possibility that my Grandad hadn't been too sure of his own date of birth. One has to remember that in those days, birth certificates were not in such demand by 'officials' as they are today, and it is quite on the cards that he didn't know his exact date of birth, especially if had been orphaned early in his life.

His entry in the Marine Society's records also revealed a couple of other interesting facts. One of which, showed that prior to joining the training ship, Grandad had been employed as a draper's assistant, and was obviously working for his living at the age of fourteen. The second fact, was even more surprising to me, and shattered my belief that he had been an orphan at the time he joined the training ship. Under a column headed ---- 'Person to contact in case of need' ---- it showed that the person nominated was his mother, Emily Mills, living at 6, Wilford Road, Croydon, Surrey ---- and gave her occupation as being a child-carer.

So what did that mean? He obviously wasn't an orphan after all. However, because his father's name hadn't been given as his next of kin, it could have meant that perhaps it was only his father that had died. Moreover, where were his brother and sister at that time? ----- After all, they would have been about 21 and 20 years old respectively, in 1896! Also, was my Grandfather living with his mother at the time he joined the training ship? I think, he probably had been living with her, as he was still fairly young and wasn't quite 15 years of age.

After acquiring these details I contacted the Marine Society, to say that although I had located my Grandfather's name in their records, I was surprised to find out that he hadn't been orphaned as I had always understood from my Dad. I also said that I had been under the impression that their Society only took orphans to help educate and train them for a career at sea, with either the Merchant Navy or the Royal Navy. In their reply, I was quickly assured that it wasn't the case, and although they did take orphans, sometimes parents would put their children forward to be trained for a life at sea ---- which is possibly what had happened in my Grandfather's case.
I was also curious to know what life would have been like on board the training ship for a 15 year-old boy in 1896. Unfortunately I have no idea what it was really like, but the Marine Society did furnish me with some details that were published in their Annual Report of 1901, together with pictures of boys undergoing training in the 1890's. Those details help to give an insight into the general routine that was in operation on board the ship at that time, together with details of the clothing that was supplied to each trainee, plus the daily provisions allowance for the boys, which are shown on the following pages:-

On Saturdays there is no school, and the ship is thoroughly cleaned. On Friday afternoons the boys have a half-holiday.

Having 'worn the hat' of a Marine Supplies Purchasing Officer during my own working life, I found the 'List of Daily Allowances', very interesting. At the time that I took early retirement in 1998, some 102 years after my Grandfather had been on the Warspite, the basic formula for daily calculations had not altered very much. However, the variety of items available to the crews over that same period of time had improved considerably. I only wish that I had had the list to hand when one of the Ships' Masters' came on the telephone to me, complaining that I had cut down on their quantities of Smoked Salmon, King Prawns, T-bone Steaks, Asparagus and the like!

Quite why my Grandad decided to approach the Marine Society to be trained for a life at sea isn't known. Was it a considered choice on his part ---- or, was it something that was 'forced' upon him?

No doubt, if his father had died when my Grandad and his siblings were still very young, it is possible that his mother would have struggled to bring the family up without any form of state help. The fact that his mother was living in Wilford Road, Croydon ---- a particularly poor area ---- would seem to point to the fact that she wasn't likely to have been very well-off.

Wilford Road, itself, was in an area known locally as 'Bang 'ole' ---- and didn't welcome strangers into its midst! Any unsuspecting persons entering that area, were more than likely be beaten up and robbed. Even in my day, as a child growing up in the 1940's, one didn't visit Bang 'ole, unless you really had to! Although, I suspect that during my childhood, the area was probably only living on its past 'reputation'.

Although I now know that my Grandfather wasn't an orphan at the time he was accepted by the Marine Society, I am still curious to know why either he, or his Mum, 'volunteered' him to be trained for a life at sea. Somehow, I find it difficult to believe that his mother would have put him forward for that sort of life. After all, she was seemingly a poor widow, and more importantly --- a mother.

In the absence of any social services in those days, to lose the availability of any money that he might have been able to earn, seems reason enough not to have wanted him to join the Royal Navy. Then, there is the fact that she was a mother! And, to my mind, it is well known that, mothers, wives, and sweethearts, are the most unlikeliest of people to want their men-folk to serve in any form of military service. Especially when it means that they are likely not to see them for long periods of time, or that they could be seriously harmed or even killed whilst performing their 'duty'. Because of that, I feel that it is most unlikely that his mother would have willingly put my Grandfather's name forward to become a sailor.

Therefore, I feel that he must have 'volunteered' himself for some reason. Perhaps he thought it would be an opportunity to break away from poor surroundings, which must have seemed pretty bleak ---- to better himself ---- or perhaps, for the chance of seeing the world.

However, since his details as entered into the Marine Society's records, showed him to have been a draper's assistant prior to his acceptance by the Society, I would have thought that he would have been in relatively secure employment. The wages as a draper's assistant, wouldn't have been very high, especially at his age; but, they would have been regular ---- and free from 'danger'. The wage for an adult shop assistant was about £1 per week at that time. The payment for being an Able-seaman in the Royal Navy, at that time would have been much the same; however, the working conditions as a sailor would have been much harder.

I recently came across an advert published in 1905 for joining the Marine Society. Perhaps he had seen something similar in 1896 ---- but it is hardly the sort of advert that would make you rush out and 'join up' ---- it was more like a last resort to me!

I hope to eventually find out more about the ships he sailed in, as listed on his Service Record, and to identify exactly which parts of the world he visited. The intention being, to try and shed more light on the man that I never knew, so that his somewhat shortened life has more than just half a dozen pieces of paper to remember him by.

At present, I have no idea as to 'How, When or Where'?, my Great Grandma, Emily Mills, became a widow

However, thanks to the Marine Society's records showing when my Grandad was accepted by them in 1896, I could see that his mother was still alive, since he had nominated her as being his next of kin. Her address, at that time, was shown in the records to be in West Croydon, at 6, Wilford Road. I take it that Grandad was living with her at that address prior to joining the training ship.

Having had the good fortune to discover that she had been living there in 1896, I then looked at the 1901 census for that address. To my astonishment, not only was she was still living in the same house as in 1896, but she was living there with other members of her family. The others, were her eldest children, William and Edith, who were both married with families of their own, plus her youngest son, Harry, who I hadn't known about, until that moment! The other people living in the house were her grandchildren, who were the children from William and Edith's marriages. The following extract from that census, shows all of Emily's family, with the exception of her husband, who was dead, and my Grandad, John Mills, who was away at sea serving with the Royal Navy.

Name	Relationship	Marital Status	Age	Occupation	Place born
Emily Mills	Head of house	Widow	52		Edenbridge
William Mills	Son	Married	26	Gen. Labourer	Stratfield Haye, Hants
Annie Mills	Dau.-in-law	Married	29		Weston, Glos.
Emily Mills	Granddaughter	Single	6		Croydon
Charles Mills	Grandson	Single	4		-- ditto --
Eva Mills	Granddaughter	Single	1		-- ditto --
Edith Stannard	Daughter	Single	23	Gen. Laundress	Lamberhurst
William George Stannard	Grandson	Single	1		Croydon
Harry Mills	Son	Single	18	Gen. Labourer	Maidstone

The fact that my Grandad had a younger brother, who was said to be 18 years old, in 1901, seems to indicate that his birth had occurred in 1883. This in turn, allowed me to see that Great Grandad George Mills must have died somewhere between Harry being conceived in 1882, and my Grandad, John Mills joining the training ship in January 1896. His death was hardly what you might call 'pin-pointed' by this snippet of information gained from the 1901 census.

Therefore, I decided to take a look at the 1891 census for No. 6, Wilford Road, to see if there was any possibility of the family being there at that time, but sadly --- no such luck! Spreading my sights a little further afield in the 1891 census for Croydon, I eventually located my Great Grandma, Emily Mills, living at 133, Gloucester Road, Croydon, with her two young sons, John Mills (age 9 years) and Henry Mills (age 7 years). The extract from that census return is shown as follows:-

The return shows that Great Grandma, Emily Mills, was already a widow by that date, and was working at 'washing and char-ing', and that she was living in the house with another widow lady, Caroline Kingett, and her four young children. The lady was also shown to be working as a 'Wash. Laundress'. Other than the fact they were both widows with children and working in 'washing and cleaning' jobs, I don't think there was any actual relationship with one another.

On a map dated 1911, of West Croydon and Selhurst within a few minutes walking distance from their home at 133, Gloucester Road, was a laundry known as the American Steam Laundry, which is possibly where Emily worked at that time. I believe the laundry eventually became known as the Sunlight Laundry, and was still in use during my childhood.

Great Grandma Emily Mills' older children ---- William and Edith ---- were not living with her at that time, and begs the question 'Where were they'? William would have been about 15 years old when the 1891 census was taken, and his sister Edith, about 14 years of age. They would still have been children looking through our eyes today, but 100 years ago, both of them would have been working and possibly living away from home.

Looking again at the 1901 census ---- which showed that William and Edith were both married and living in Great Grandma Emily Mills' home, complete with their respective families ---- I decided to try and discover when and where they had married. Their youngest brother Harry, who was 18 years old, and also living in the same house, was single, so I could 'ignore' him for the moment!

The thing is, where do you start looking ---- ideally you need the date of the marriage, but this is not shown on census returns. The best that I had to go on, were the ages of their eldest children. Working on the assumption that a lot of 'first' children in marriages seem to be born in the first year or so of a marriage, it seemed reasonable to start looking for the date of their marriages from a couple of years before their eldest child was born.

William's eldest child, was young Emily who was 6 years old at the time of the 1901 census. This meant that her birth would have been about 1895, so therefore I started to look for William's marriage to his wife Annie, two years prior to Emily's birth, i.e., about 1893.

Initially, I had absolutely no success, and I suppose it was William that made me appreciate just how common the surname 'Mills' is. You wouldn't believe just how many William and Annie Mills's got married in England between 1893 and 1901. Not having Annie's maiden name was a disadvantage, and eventually I gave up the search in that area, and turned my attention to Edith's marriage instead.

Edith Mills had become a 'Stannard' as the result of her marriage, although, for some reason her husband's name didn't appear on the 1901 census return. Their marriage had only produced one child at that time, namely a son, William George Stannard, who was shown to be just 1 year old. The fact that he was so young, meant that I only needed to start my search for their marriage from the beginning of 1898, and also, because I knew Edith's maiden name was 'Mills' and her married one was 'Stannard', the search was that much easier to do. As can be seen from the copy shown on the following page, it transpired, that she married her husband, William Stannard, on the 1st August 1898.

I also looked through the 1891 census again to see if I could locate her whereabouts elsewhere in England, but again, because the name of 'Edith Mills' was so common, I went cross-eyed looking for the right 'Edith Mills', and had to give up for awhile. A little later on, I decided to see if I could locate where her husband had been in 1891. I had a sort of success with his name ---- and believe it or not ---- also with Edith's name as well. The trouble is, I am not 100% certain that I have found the correct William Stannard and Edith Mills in 1891. Therefore, to register my uncertainty, in this area I will print my findings in red. That way, if I do eventually find they are wrong, I will be able to make the necessary amendments to put it right.

I found a 'William H. Stannard' mentioned in the 1891 census for Margate, working as a Farm Labourer, and living in what was known as the Servant's House at Updown Farm. The return shows him as being 17 years old, single, and born at St Nicholas at Iwade.

He wasn't the only man of that name in the 1891 census. There were quite a lot more all over the country. So, why did I 'hit' on him as possibly being the right William Stannard?

Also living and working at the same address, was a young girl, 13 years old, by the name of Edith Mills. She was described as a General Domestic Servant, who had been born at a place called Chitty, in Kent.

Perhaps I'm clutching at straws here! Her place of birth at Chitty, in Kent, does not tie in with my Edith Mills who was said to have been born at Lamberhurst, in Kent. Nor for that matter, does her age! If she was 13 years old in 1891, that would have put her year of birth as being 1878, not the 1876 I originally had. But census ages can be wrong!

However, I just couldn't ignore the coincidence that there were two people ---- both having the names that I was looking for ---- both of a similar age (albeit !3 years and 17 years) ---- both single ---- and both living and working at the same address.

I shall of course endeavour to confirm whether or not ---- 'Yea or Nay' ---- they are my relatives. However, for the moment, I'll keep an open mind on the findings that I have at the moment.

In my researching of this area, I have had contact with two people that are distantly related to me in so far as they themselves have been descended from --- Edith Mills and William Stannard. Unfortunately, like me, they are not anymore aware of Edith Mills than I am, and seem to be doubtful about me having the 'right' Edith Mills / William Stannard in the 1891 census.

The contacts are a lady called Lynne Rich (née Stannard) and Susan Armstrong (née Benham). They are second cousins, who until they became interested in their family background, were not aware of each others existence, nor the fact that their Great Grandmother, Edith Mills had a brother called John Mills.

I have also had email exchanges with a June Foreman, who was married to a William Benham (b. 1927), who was a son of Ivy Stannard, and a grandson of Edith Mills.

It would seem, that Edith Mills was married twice. Her first husband was William Stannard --- who everyone, other than me, thinks that he lived at Wallington, near Croydon ---- but I will return to that in a moment. Her second husband's surname was Hylands, and since he is nothing to do with my family I haven't bothered to follow up on him at all.

Anyway, back to the William Stannard that married Edith. Apparently he was a career soldier, which probably accounts for why he wasn't at 6, Wilford Road, Croydon, on the night of the 1901 census for Croydon. In all probability he would have been with his Army unit, wherever that might have been!

Presumably he must have got home fairly frequently between 1900 and 1905, since the couple had five children during that time, namely : William. G. Stannard (b. 1900); Amy Stannard (b. 1901); George Stannard (b. 1902); Albert Walter Wagner Stannard (b. 1904) and Ivy Stannard (b. 1905).

It is said, that Edith's husband, William, probably fought in the Boer Wars ----but I haven't bothered to check this out, primarily because he isn't closely related to me ---- merely being a Grand Uncle by marriage. It is also said, that he fought in the First World War, serving as a Private with the 2nd Battalion Essex Regiment, ( Service No. 3/2914), and was killed in France on the 9 August 1917. His name is engraved on the Arras Memorial, in France, in Bay 7.

In the Casualty Details, it clearly mentions that he was the son of William Stannard of Bandon Hill, Wallington, Surrey, and the husband of Edith Hylands ( formerly Stannard, née Mills) of 7, Amersham Road, West Croydon Surrey. Therefore, it would seem that my findings of a William Stannard and an Edith Mills in the 1891 census for Margate, are not the correct couple after all! Although, I suppose there is a faint possibility that the Edith Mills mentioned on that census return, might still be correct one ---- so I won't dismiss her as being 'no relation' for the time being! None of the people that I have been in contact with can shed any light on Edith's whereabouts in 1891, so I will still continue to keep an open mind in that area.

Of the five children from Edith and William's marriage, I have only found two that were definitely married, Namely Albert Walter Wagner Stannard, who married a Catherine Watt in 1924, and Ivy Stannard, who married a William Benham.

Albert Walter Wagner Stannard's marriage produced a son and a daughter. The son, who was born in 1924, and named Albert after his father. For some reason the father and son had a 'falling-out' and never spoke to one another afterwards, and as such, the son knows very little about his forebears. Albert, the son, married a Jane Golding in 1956, and they had a daughter called Lynne in 1966, from whom I have gained this little bit of family history. Lynne grew up and married a John Rich, and has a family of her own.

Ivy Stannard, (Edith Mills' daughter), married William Benham, and between them had five children, one of whom was also called William, who was born in 1927. He in turn went onto marry a June Foreman, who had three children together Guy, Dawn and Wendy, all born between 1956 and 1959. Sadly, June's husband died, when the children were quite young, and life being what it is, she remarried and slowly drifted away from her first husband's family. Consequently, she doesn't know all that much about the Benham side of her family, which was the link via Ivy Benham (née Stannard), to Edith Mills. June reckoned that Ivy was a lovely woman who would help anyone, and doted on her family.

Wendy subsequently married an Alan Sharples in 1979, had three children, and the family moved to Illinois, America, in 1994, where they have been living ever since.

Another of Ivy's children, was Frederick Benham, whom, I am told, married Olive Setchfield , and had five children of their own. One of these was Susan Benham, who is married to Ian Armstrong, and has two children ---- namely Sarah and Mark. Susan is also niece, by marriage, to the aforementioned, June Foreman

Other than this brief contact through exchanges of Emails I have had no other contact with the Stannard and Benham families.

The other information that I managed to glean from the marriage certificate belonging to William Stannard and Edith Mills, (see page 41), is that Edith's brother William Mills was one of the witnesses to their wedding, along with his wife, Annie Kezia Mills. Although this didn't show me Annie Mills's maiden name, her second name of Kezia was sufficiently unusual to enable me to find the year when she married her husband William . It transpired that her maiden name had been Annie Kezia Sellman, who married William Mills in the December Quarter of 1897, in the District of Croydon, Surrey. ( Volume 2a Page 493 of the Marriage Registers refers).

Again, I have to ask myself, 'How did Annie and William meet'? In the 1901 census, although living at Croydon at that time, it showed that she had been born in the heart of the Cotswolds, at a little place called Weston Subedge, in Gloucestershire. She was the daughter of a farm labourer, a William Sellman, who, himself had been born at another tiny village called Swinbrook, in Oxfordshire. In all probability, William Sellman must have met Annie's mother in Weston Subedge, which was where they married and brought up their family. The Sellman family were living in that village for at least thirty years, at different addresses, and appear in all the censuses from 1871 through to 1901.

As the time between the censuses passed, various changes occurred in the household as more children were born into the family, and, because some of the older ones left home, maybe to find work elsewhere, or to start families of their own.

Annie Kezia Sellman appears in the 1871 / 1881 and 1891 censuses in Weston Subedge. Her husband-to-be, William Mills, seems to have remained in the Surrey and Kent area, although I haven't found any trace of him in either of those counties during the 1891 census. I wondered if he could have been at, or near, Weston Subedge in 1891, and checked for his name in the census there, ---- but without success. Off of the top of my head, I cannot think of any reason why he should have been in such a tiny village ---- so far from his own mother --- and the comparative 'bright lights' of Croydon. So did he meet Annie in her part of the country, or had she moved across to Croydon for some reason? But again, I can't really think why a country lass like her would have made her way to Croydon. If she was looking for work, surely Worcester, Gloucester, Stratford - upon-Avon, or even Bristol would have had as much to offer her, as Croydon. I suppose, there is always the possibility that she might have been working as a domestic servant with a family, who had to move to Croydon, and perhaps she travelled with them, and met William Mills that way. The earliest record, for me, of Annie being in Croydon, seems to be the day that she married William Mills in 1897.

Did she, I wonder, ever go back to Weston Subedge to see her family after she was married. Her parents were 65 years old in 1901, and it's doubtful to my mind that they would have journeyed to Croydon to see her. And, did they ever get to see her children --- i.e., their grandchildren? Times must have been so hard for people in those days --- with families drifting miles apart ---- possibly chasing 'work' ---- and as a consequence, perhaps never seeing one another again ---- or hardly ever! No phones, no text messages, no emails or faxes, no mobile phones with cameras --- and only the occasional short letter finding its way back and forth, (assuming they could read or write)!

I wonder how the people of today would have coped, who seem to leave their house, and within a few minutes of leaving their front door, suddenly find the need to ring home on their mobile phone. Invariably it is just a trivial piece of conversation that they are having to make, purely and simply because they cannot be bothered to hold a proper conversation in their own homes!

There was one thing that was noticeable on the marriage certificate belonging to Edith Mills and William Stannard, which struck me as being slightly odd ---- in so far as it didn't show Edith's father, George Mills, as having died prior to the marriage. It is customary, when a father has died prior to a couple getting married, the fact is noted alongside the father's name on the certificate, with the word ---- (Deceased) ---- enclosed in brackets. So, should I assume that he wasn't dead when they married in 1897, or was it some sort of oversight that this note wasn't on the certificate.

I think that it was probably an oversight on someone's part, since the 1891 census for Croydon clearly shows that my Great Grandma Emily Mills was a already a widow, at that time. That fact was also substantiated, to a degree, when the Marine Society took my Grandfather, John Mills onto the training ship in 1896, when they entered her name and address as being his next of kin.

Introducing my paternal grandmother, Ellen Roff, (1880 - 1964), together with her relatives the Roff and Collins Families.

As previously explained, my paternal Grandmother had been married twice. Her first husband was John Mills, who my true Grandfather; whilst her second husband, Arthur Joy, was my step-grandfather.

However, as can be seen from the following details, taken from the copy of my Gran's birth certificate, she was born on the 12 March 1880, to my Great Grandparents, Edwin Roff and Catherine Collins, who had named her Ellen Roff.

At the time of her birth my Great Grandparents were living at No. 4, Hill Street, in Old town, Croydon, which was another poor area of Croydon, and home to a mainly Irish community. It was a similar to the 'Bang'ole' area where my Great Grandmother Emily Mills was living in 1896.

Many of the houses in Old Town were wooden, although I do believe that her family's home in Hill Street was built of bricks and mortar ---- not that it was a particularly grand affair. The following picture, although not showing the actual house where she was born, does gives an indication as to the sort of house an area that they were living in.

The houses in the picture are of Nos 11-14, Hill Street, so it seems reasonable to assume that No. 4, where my Gran was born, would have looked somewhat similar. The street no longer exists today. It disappeared before I was born, back in the 1930's, after a Housing Act which was introduced, allowing the compulsory purchase and clearance of the more dilapidated parts of Croydon ---- many of which seemed to be in Old Town.

Hill Street, itself, used to run from Old Town ---- which in actual fact was the name of a road ---- up towards a place called Duppas Hill. The houses were built at right angles to the road. It was a method which enabled 19th century house-builders to cram as many houses as possible onto the smallest plot of land ---- irrespective of the overcrowding that it caused.

The houses depicted in the picture had a narrow concrete path from the roadway in front of the houses, thereby separating them from the yard, where they would hang out their washing to dry. Fencing and privacy from one's neighbours was non-existent!

As a little boy, my Dad used to take me swimming at Scarbrook Road Swimming Baths, and to get there, we would walk along Old Town. As I write this, I can remember ---- as well as seeing him in my mind's eye ---- pointing across the road and telling me that was where his Mum was born. I used to make the appropriate noises as though I was interested, but at that time, I was more interested in going for a swim, and had no room to accommodate such facts. What I wouldn't give to be able to ask him questions now!

Hill Street itself, was just a stone's throw from another notorious area called Salem's Place, and only a few minutes walk from a slum area called Middle Row, situated in a triangle of streets bordered by the High Street, Surrey Street and Crown Hill.

Middle Row didn't cover a very large area, and consisted of a network of narrow streets and alleys as shown in following pictures, which lay in a triangle, bordered by Surrey Street, Crown Hill and Croydon's High Street.

Some of the properties were houses, which sometimes had more than a dozen people living in them. Other buildings were lodging houses, each with an average of 24 occupants. Prostitutes were rife in the area and the lodging houses; although, the better conducted lodgings were run by Italians, who tended to provide accommodation for their fellow countrymen, who it seems had congregated in that area.

During the mid 1890's some of the properties in the area of Middle Row were demolished and the area was opened up somewhat. To house some of the people that lost their homes or lodgings, other 14 places were made available in the area by Mint Walk. A hostel was also built, just over half a mile away, at Pitlake Bridge. It was designed to accommodate about 64 men and 34 women. Trouble is, the women were unable to ply their trade from the hostel, and soon moved elsewhere. The hostel then became a 'men only' establishment, which was still in operation during my childhood, right up until the 1950's.

As a kid, I was always told to be careful as I walked past the hostel, as the men that stayed there were a pretty unsavoury crowd. I must admit, irrespective of whether it was day or night, there always seemed to be a crowd of rowdy drunken men loitering on the pavement outside. I used to think that my young friends must have been given the same advice by their parents, because I can remember us always crossing the road near the bottom of Pitlake, so that we didn't actually walk past the entrance to the hostel. We didn't normally take any heed of parental advice, so I'm not sure if their advice was actually taken, or whether it was the fact that immediately after the hostel, the pavement on that side of the road came to an end. It was therefore essential to cross over to the pavement opposite, at the narrowest point of the road ----- i.e., just before the 'dreaded' hostel.

How long my Great Grandparents had lived in Hill Road, before Gran was born, isn't known. However, a year later, at the time of the 1881 census, the family had moved house and was found to be living at Lees Villas, Newark Road, in South Croydon. From that census, it was noticed that Gran had an elder brother, Edwin H. Roff, who was 3 years old at the time. That particular census return also shows that Gt. Grandad Roff was working as a bricklayer's labourer.

In the 1891 Census for Croydon, I found that 11year-old Ellen Roff was living at home with her family in a house at 18, Leighton Street West, which lay between Mitcham Road and Handcroft Road. The household consisted of:-

According to the odd bits of information that I have gleaned over the years, the Roff's were a very boisterous bunch, gathering at Great Grannie Roff's home, to make merry, with lots of drinking, dancing and singing. Unfortunately, such parties invariably caused the men to be arrested and locked up on a Saturday night for being drunk and disorderly.

Great Grandad Roff, although said to be a brickworker's labourer on the 1881 census return, had, at some stage, been kicked in the head by a horse. The accident left him very feeble health-wise and, for the rest of his life, he was unable to gain regular employment.

Due to his inability to hold down a proper job, the family was very hard-up, and had to apply for 'Poor Relief' so that they could have food to put on the table. To entitle him to claim such 'Relief,' he would have to go and break stones that would be used for the repairing roads. Great Grannie Roff, in an effort to provide for her family, worked long hours, from very early in the mornings, scrubbing shop doorsteps and polishing etc. Nevertheless, it was still sometimes necessary for my Gran, who was still a young girl, together go with one of her younger sisters to the workhouse, to ask for a dole of foodstuffs, because there was nothing to eat at home, and no money to buy any.

Because Gt. Grandad Roff did not always have work, he would sit at home and get under his wife's feet. In an effort to keep out of her way, and not incur her wrath, he used to go and hide himself in their cellar, out of harms way. When all else failed, he could sometimes be found standing outside The Black Boy public house in Mitcham Road, talking to himself, and waiting for the pub to open. Quite where he got the money to buy beer isn't known ---- but it is a noted fact that when people were poor, they turned to alcohol ---- and there is no doubt that Croydon had serious poverty and drink problems in those days.

'The Black Boy' pub that Great Grandad Roff frequented was still around when I was a lad. It used to have a sign hanging outside showing a young black African boy. Presumably in today's 'politically correct' society, if it is still a pub, it has probably had to change its name.

In my childhood, there used to be a 'request' bus stop close by the pub. At that time, the bus conductors always used to shout out the name of the next stop that the bus would be coming to ---- which was one of life's useful little niceties that now seem to have largely disappeared. As the bus neared the stop, the bus conductor's cheery voice would ring out loud and clear 'ANYBODY FOR THE DIRTY BOY'?

By the time I came into the world, Great Grandad Roff had been dead for many a long year, so I never ever met him. Great Grannie Roff, however, was still alive when I was born, and she lived on her own, just around the corner from where I lived with my Mum and Dad.

She lived in a block of council flats at No.4, Leighton Gardens, which was just off of the Sumner Road. My Mum would sometimes pop round to see her, and take me along with her. It was not something I actually enjoyed doing. She was very old, and was about 81 years of age when I was born. She died, in 1946, at the age of 89. In my mind's eye, she was very little, quite wizened with age, and always wore long black dresses that dragged along the ground as she walked ---- and was very witch-like to my young eyes. I can't ever remember her talking to me, but there again, it was still the era when children had 'to be seen and not heard', so unless an adult actually spoke to you directly, you hardly ever spoke to them first.

Having said that, even at the age she was, her home was absolutely spotless, and every time that I visited her, she always seemed to be preparing a dinner for about half a dozen people. She had a large dining table which would be covered in an incredibly white tablecloth, stiff with starch, and not a crease to be seen anywhere. The table was neatly set out with seemingly the best cutlery, china and glasses, as though there was going to be a banquet. When I now reflect on how immaculately her dinner table seemed to have been set out, I somehow find it hard to come to terms that she spent a goodly part of her life in poverty. However, in contrast to Great Grannie Roff's immaculately arranged dining table, her cooking of greens or cabbage in a large old black saucepan ---- somewhat reminiscent of a witch's cauldron ---- left a lot to be desired. The smell of the greens bubbling away on her gas stove was quite revolting, and has lingered long in my nostrils.

I don't know who her guests were likely to have been, but I should imagine that one was definitely Bob Collins, her blind brother, who lived, in an old cottage, just around the corner from her in Mitcham Road. 'Blind' Bob, was my Dad's Great Uncle, and was always known to me as Uncle Bob. My Dad would always stop and chat to him, whenever he came across the old chap sitting on the low garden wall outside the cottage where he lived. Uncle Bob would sit on his wall for hours, passing the time with his cronies. He was about seven years younger than Gt. Grannie Roff, but because he walked with a stick, he always seemed older and more stooped than her. I was terrified of him. To me, when I saw him tapping his way along the road with his stick, he seemed to be the very incarnation of 'Blind Pugh', as depicted in Robert Louis Stevenson's book, Treasure Island. Unlike my Dad, if I ever saw Uncle Bob, sitting on his garden wall, I would always make a large detour so that I didn't have to pass him. Somehow, it always escaped my childish mind, because he was blind, that he wouldn't have been able to see me pass by.

Great Grannie Roff died, on the 18 March 1946, she passed away at 66a, Queens Road, Croydon, at the age of 89. The address where she passed away, was by then a hospital for the elderly, although it was still classed as the workhouse by the older generation.

Almost forty years after Gt. Grannie Roff passed away, my own mother still viewed the building in Queens Road as a workhouse/geriatric hospital. Mum was absolutely terrified that she might have to end her days in there. I'm happy to say, that she never did!

I cannot recall my Gran, Grannie Joy, ever talking to me about her mother. Nor, for that matter, can I ever remember, when she chatted with my Mum and Dad, hearing her tell them that she'd visited her own mother either in her home at No. 4, Leighton Gardens, or whilst she was staying in the Queens Road homes. Mind you, I don't actually remember hearing my parents speak about visiting Great Grannie Roff's whilst she was in the home, or talking about her death. I suppose that all of them must have talked about it, and in all probability, at least my Dad and his Mum would have attended her funeral.

I can recall them talking about other people that had died, i.e., neighbours and friends; especially during the war years. So, quite how the death of my Great Grandma passed me by unnoticed, is a bit of a mystery. In 1946, when Great Gran died, my own Mum was suffering with various pains and sickness that culminated in her going into hospital to have one of her kidneys removed. At the same time, I disappeared into hospital myself, to have operations carried out on my lip and palate. ( Note: I won't go into anymore about myself at this stage, suffice to say that I was born with a harelip and cleft palate, and will write about my own life in another booklet later on).

I suppose that what with my Mum being unwell, and us both disappearing into different hospitals at the same time ---- Mum in Croydon ---- and me, just outside of Southampton ---- there was quite a lot going on in my young life at that time. It's quite on the cards, they refrained from telling me that Great Grannie Roff had died in hospital, in case they thought I would link 'dying' with hospitals and perhaps worry 'unnecessarily'!

Sadly, I have very few memories of my Great Gran ---- other than the fact I was terrified of her, even though she never did anything to hurt me.

Gt. Grannie Roff's side of the family, the Collins's, were said to be just as rowdy as their counterparts, the Roff's. Consequently, they also spent many a Friday or Saturday night, in cells at the local police station, for brawling and drunkenness. I wonder how her father, Dennis Collins, who was a policeman himself, would have felt about that! As I understand it, the poor man had been invalided out of the police service, due to a leg injury that he had sustained. I take it that his injury must have got worse after leaving the police force, because later on he became confined to his bed. As a consequence, his daughter, Gt. Grannie Roff, took him into her own home, to care for him. It is said, that Gt. Gt. Grandad had a long beard, which Gt. Grannie Roff would comb for him, and afterwards, would lay it out neatly over the sheets. Eventually, the old chap's leg degenerated further, and set itself at a peculiar angle. When he died, it is said that they had to break his gammy leg so as to be able to put him in a coffin.

My Gran, together with her sister Caroline, tried to distance themselves from their other brothers and sisters, and remained fairly close to one another. In fact, I cannot remember Caroline or many of Gran's other siblings, other than having vague memories of her sister, Margaret (Aunt 'Mag'), and their brother, George. However, the memories are extremely vague, and to my mind, Aunt 'Mag' and Uncle George only came into existence for me towards the end of their own lives, when they made a rare visits to Gran's home ---- or an even rarer visit to ours. Below is a picture of Great Grannie Roff , with her brother, George Roff, and his partner ( unknown), sitting on the sands at the seaside, in 1938 --- the same year that I was born.

As I mentioned previously, my Gran was married twice; her second husband being Arthur Joy. And now, seeing that I have just identified him in the picture on the previous page, I will briefly mention that their marriage produced a daughter, who was called Caroline Joy. The consequence of which, meant that my Dad and his sister Carrie, were half brother and sister to one another. Later, when Carrie married a Kenneth Waters, they also had a daughter, who they called Anne Waters. She is my only cousin from my Dad's side of the family, and now lives under her married name of Anne Newsome. I suppose in strictly speaking, we are not proper cousins but merely half-cousins to each other.

I will come to mention my cousin Anne again a little later on, but it seems right to introduce her here, since ---- as unbeknown to me ---- she has been researching her own parent's background, for many years. Consequently, she had managed to trace our mutual Grandmother's family ---- the Roff's and Collins's ---- back over several centuries ---- to the mid 1600's. The lines of descent from the earliest members of those families can be seen in the Family Tree's at the end of this book. I have not checked Anne's findings, but from the letters we have exchanged over the past couple of years, she seems to have been quite thorough in her research, and I have no reason to doubt her findings.

Apparently the earliest members of the Roff family that my cousin has managed to trace, are Henry Roff and his wife Anne, who were possibly born, married and died in the area around Caterham, Surrey. She hasn't managed to locate their dates of birth, but has managed to discover that Henry died in 1690, and his wife, some 26years later, in 1716. They had four children, Edmond (b.1664), William (b.1666), Nathan (b.1678) and Mary (b.1679). Assuming Henry and Anne were similar in age, and they were about 20 years old when their first child was born, they themselves might have been born c.1646.

Prior to my great Grandparents, Edwin Roff and Catherine Collins, who were both born in the mid 1800's, I have no idea what my father's earliest Roff ancestors were like. Presumably they all came from humble origins, and like me, possibly never did anything that was likely to have them remembered for posterity. Having said that, their lives threaded their way through some fantastic periods in our country's history, and for that reason alone, I see them as 'heroes' that must have endured times of great hardship. For example, various members of the family had lived through two English Civil Wars, the Great Plague of London which caused 60,000 deaths in 1665, and in the following year, the Great Fire of London. If only I'd known this when I was learning history at school I would have listened more intently to my teachers!

From at least the early 1600's it would seem that the Roff's were born, and lived out their lives in an area 10 miles to the south of Croydon, encompassing Coulsdon, Caterham, Chaldon and Nutfield.

Although they had houses and a growing populations, they were still very rural areas even when I was a child; they were the sort of places one would be taken as a child for picnics, school outings, or scout camps. Back in the 1600's, with the limited population in the country in those days, those areas must have seemed very remote and with hardly any inhabitants.

Quite what occupations the Roff's had in the 1600's to the 1800's isn't known, but presumably they would have been involved in working on the land, or possibly looking after pigs and cattle. By the middle of the 1800's part of the family had moved from the surrounding area into Croydon itself, which was by then a very fast growing market town.

My cousin Anne has kept in touch with Josie Benn (née Josie Doe), who is now in her eighties, and was a cousin to my Dad and Anne's mother. Josie, was the daughter of Gran's sister Caroline. All three of them, appear in the picture shown on page 49 ---- Josie is the little girl whose head appears in the front, at the bottom of the photo.

Anyway, Josie has also had an interest in the Roff family and has made notes of all the Roff's listed in various Croydon directories from about 1851 through to 1939. In the main, they were predominately involved as Pig or Cattle Dealers, Cow- keepers, Dairymen or Pork Butchers. There are some exceptions, where one worked in a factory, another in a dyers and cleaners, and of course Gt. Grandad Edwin Roff, whose name does not appear in any of the directories, who was a bricklayer's labourer.

Listed in the printed blurb, on a copy of an old Ordnance Survey Map of Central Croydon in 1895, a J.V. Roff, owned a butcher's shop at 13, Church Street, Croydon. It was situated on the left-hand side the stretch of road, now known as Crown Hill, which led down from Croydon's North End towards Surrey Street Market.

By the 1930's the Roff family had several butcher shops in Croydon. One was at one at 35, Surrey Street, which appears in the following picture, and another at 26, Lower Church Street, and a third at 37, Waddon Road.

The following is a table of all the Roffs and Collins of Croydon, which have appeared in various Croydon Directories, from the early 1800's to the mid 1940's. Which, according to my cousin Anne and Josie Doe are related to the them and to me.

CROYDON TRADES DIRECTORY	SURNAME	FIRST NAMES	OCCUPATION	ADDRESS

1855	Roff	John	Cowman/Milkman	Brighton Road, Croydon
	Roff	Robert	General Dealer	Haling Rd, South Croydon
	Roff	William	Milkman	10, Selsdon Rd, South Croydon
1859	Roff	John	Cowkeeper/Milkman	Brighton Road, South Croydon
	Roff	Robert	Cattle Dealer	Haling Rd, South Croydon
	Roff	William	Milkman	10, Selsdon Rd, South Croydon
	Roff	Thomas	Employed @ Tatlors Factory	Haling Rd, South Croydon
1861/1862	Roff	Robert	Cowkeeper/Milkman	Brighton Road, South Croydon
	Roff	Thomas	Pork Butcher	58. Southend, Croydon
1866	Roff	Robert	Cowkeeper/Milkman	Brighton Road, South Croydon
	Roff	Thomas	Pork Butcher	58, Southend, Croydon
	Roff	William	Milkman	Probably @ 10, Selsdon Road, South Croydon
1869	Roff	William	Dyer & Cleaner	4, Alexandra Place, GloucesterRroad, Croydon
	Roff	Robert	Cowkeeper/Milkman
	Roff	Thomas	Pork Butcher
1874	Roff	Robert	Cattle Dealer	Brighton Road, Croydon
1875	Roff	W.	?	2, Roff's Cottages, Brighton Road, Croydon
1876	Roff	T	Pig Dealer	Bampton Cottage , Selsdon Road, Croydon
1878	Roff	T	Pig Dealer	Bampton Cottage, Selsdon Road, Croydon
1880	Roff	T	Pig dealer	Bampton Cottage Selsdon Road, Croydon
	Roff	?	?	Beaufort Buildings, Brighton Road, Croydon
1882	Roff	J. H.	Pork Butcher	Church Street, Croydon
	Roff	Mrs. R.	?	4, Roff's Cottages, Brighton Road, Croydon
	Roff	Wm.	?	2, Roff's Cottages, Brighton Road
1884	Roff	J. H.	Pork Butcher	Church Street, Croydon
	Roff	T	Pig Dealer	Bampton Cottage Selsdon Road, Croydon,
1908	Roff	Edward	?	64, Leighton Street East, West Croydon
1930	Roff	& Son	Pork Butcher	35, Surrey street, Croydon
	Roff	J. h.	Butcher	26, Lower Church street, Croydon
1934/1937/1939	Roff	& Son	Pork Butcher	35, Surrey Street, Croydon
	Roff	J. H.	Butcher	26, Lower Church Street, Croydon
	Roff	H	Butcher	37, Waddon Road, Croydon
In the 1859 Directory there is a	Collins	James	Cowkeeper & Dairyman	22, Albion Street, West Croydon

Great Grannie Roff's own ancestors, the Collins family appear to have originated in Ireland. My cousin Anne's research shows that our 3 x Great Grandparents were James Collins who was born in Limerick c.1798, and his wife Ann, who was born in Cork, c.1796. I suppose, because of these origins and since Great Grannie Roff's family were devout Catholics it was inevitable that my cousin Anne and I, were destined to be born into the Catholic faith. I don't know how strong a Catholic my cousin is these days, but I personally am very 'lapsed', to the extent that I cannot really call myself one!

The fact that myself, my Dad and my Gran's family were all Catholics, should I suppose have given me some indication that we were probably of Irish descent. However, until my cousin Anne told me that our 3 x Great Grandparents were Irish, I had never given the subject much thought. Of the few Irish people that I have come into contact with over the years, I can't say that I disliked them, but the ones that I knew seemed to be extremely strict family-wise when it came to bringing up their children. Some others, that I've known more casually, have sometimes seemed off-hand to the point of rudeness. But there again, I know plenty of English people who are like that!

Right from my school days, I was always aware that the English and the Irish have never seen eye to eye with one another. Ever since we set foot in their country 800 years ago there has always been a constant undercurrent of trouble caused by our presence there. There have been rights and wrongs on both sides, and even I can see that there have been occasions when our behaviour towards them has left a lot to be desired. I also feel certain, that if the boot had been on the other foot we would have felt just the same as them.

I cannot say that anything to do with England's activities in Ireland over the years is much to be proud of, nor, if I am honest, am I very impressed with the way some of our English forebears have treated other countries in the past. However, sometimes good has come from our intrusion into their lives, but on the whole, much of the dissension we have with countries today stems from the decisions taken by our predecessors several hundred years ago.

Although I can well understand the grievances that some countries have towards us, I cannot in anyway condone the violence that is perpetrated today on innocent people, in an effort to revenge what happened in the past. Ideally, I would like everybody to be able to wipe the slate clean, and start afresh, putting all past grievances behind them. Sadly that is easier said than done! When you look into ordinary families ---- disagreements that occurred many years ago still rankle within those families today ---- even though the current generation wasn't necessarily around at that time the disagreement took place! Nevertheless, although it might be an uphill struggle to rectify the wrongs of the past, we certainly shouldn't give up on trying to make things better for all concerned.

It was in 1796, in Co. Cork, Southern Ireland, my 3 times Gt. Grandma, Ann Collins, was born. In the latter part of that same year, inspired by a group of United Irishmen and a fervently patriotic Irishman called Theobald Wolfe Tone, the French sent an armada of ships and men with the explicit intention of expelling the English from Ireland. The French had agreed to this plan because it had long been their objective to destabilize the English government and its people. The armada consisting of more than forty French warships and 15,000 soldiers, set sail from the port of Brest, on the 15 December 1796, bound for Bantry Bay in Cork.

Quite why they chose to make this attack in the middle of winter is not clear. The mission fell foul of bad weather and poor communications. The frigate Fraternite, with a French Admiral and a Commander -in' chief aboard, became separated from the main fleet, another vessel sank and ten more were blown several hundred miles off course. By the time the remaining ships got to Bantry Bay the winds were so strong and unfavourable it was impossible for the vessels to land. The weather continued to badly hamper the ships and the mission was finally aborted on the 29 December 1796.

Further unrest followed in Ireland a few years later, when the English introduced the Act of Union. Effectively, the Act abolished the Irish Parliament, and instead united Ireland with Great Britain to become the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Consequently, numerous revolts took place throughout Ireland because of the ever increasing numbers of poor and homeless people. Apparently, those Englishmen that held land in Ireland quickly realized that they could derive more profit from their land by turning it over to grazing land, than renting it out to Irish tenant farmers. Because of that, they evicted thousands of tenant farmers and their families, destroying their homes in the process and forcing them onto the streets.

Whilst all this was taking place in Ireland, my 3 x Great Grandparents James and Ann Collins had married and started a family of their own. They had four children, Margaret, (b.1825/6 in Cork), Ellen (b.1827 in Ireland), Dennis (b. in Ireland c.1830) and James, who was born in Fulham, London c.1834/35. Since the last one was born in London, it would appear that James and Ann Collins, must have come and settled in England at some stage. I don't know if their children Margaret and Ellen also accompanied them to England, but thanks to my cousin Anne's findings, it would appear that their third child, Dennis, remained in Ireland until about 1852, before coming to England.

My cousin Anne has told me, according to her mother and Josie Doe, Dennis Collins was supposed to have come over to England to escape The Potato Famine in Ireland. Having been over here for awhile he wanted to get married, and a Catholic girl was 'called' over from Ireland to become his bride. However, since the actual Potato Famine occurred between 1845-1848, and he didn't arrive in London until 1852, that belief may not be quite right. Although it must be said, that the famine did have long term effects on the Irish, and could well have been one of the reasons for coming over to England.

Actually, my cousin Anne, during her researches, discovered that Dennis Collins had come over to London to marry a girl called Ellen Russell, who had been born in England of Irish parents. That marriage took place took place on the 18 July 1852, and ultimately they were to become Anne's and my Great Great Grandparents.

I wonder, did the Collins family have to come to England because of what the English had been doing in Ireland? If so, surely they must have disliked the English? And, if they did dislike them, I wonder why they decided to settle here, in preference to making new lives for themselves in America, Canada or Australia. This is just a curiosity thought on my part, and not because I have any adverse feelings towards the Irish. After all, if my 3 x Great Grandparents hadn't decided to settle here in England, neither I, my cousin Anne, Josie Doe, nor our respective families, past and present, would have come into being. What a loss that would have been to the world!

Anyway, Dennis Collins and Ellen Russell's marriage did take place and in the due passage of time, they produced seven children, one of whom was Catherine Collins, born at Clapham in 1856, and who went onto become our Great Grandma when she married Edwin Roff in 1876.

By the time the 1901 census came along, some of the Roff's and Collins' families 're-appear' in various houses that were in Leighton Street West, in Croydon. On that particular census night of the 31st March and 1st April 1901, the following family members were found to be living at No. 18, Leighton Street:-

Of the eleven children that my Great Grandparents had, only six of them were living with their parents on that census night. Of those that were missing, namely Edwin (jnr) --- age 23; Ellen (my Gran) ---- age 21; Catherine ---- age 20; Mabel ---- age 14; Jane ( who had died in 1891 age 6); Lily ( who wasn't born until 1902).

It was possible that Gran (Ellen), and her sisters Catherine and Mabel, were all working in service, and living at their places of employment on that census night, and that is the reason for them not being at the family home.

Further checking of the 1901 census at other houses in Leighton Street, revealed that Edwin Roff (jnr), who was also missing from the family home on that census night was living a few doors away. The census return shows that he was 23 years old, employed as a bricklayer's labourer, married and living at No. 12, Leighton Street with his wife Alice ----- age 26, and their two daughters, Florence ---- age 3 years and little Alice ---- age 11 months.

According to the 1901 census return, for the family home at 18, Leighton Street West, there was also shown, a 2 year-old daughter called Maud Roff, which tends to indicate that she had been born towards the end of 1898. A check on the 1837 Online Website told me that there was indeed a Maud Roff, who was born in Croydon, and registered in the October-December Quarter of 1898, under GRO reference Volume 2a ' Page 275.

Another look at the census returns from 'down that street', also showed that Great Grannie Roff's parents, Dennis and Ellen Collins were still alive and living at No. 11, Leighton Street. Both were said to be 71 years of age, and Dennis's occupation, even at that age, showed that he was a bricklayer's labourer. I must confess that came as some surprise to me, since my cousin Anne's own researches had shown him to be a policeman. Apparently she is able to support the fact that he was a policeman, since she has a copy of Grannie Roff''s, i.e., Catherine Collins, birth certificate, which shows her father's occupation.

I also did a name search for my Gran, Ellen Roff, under the 1901 Census, and to my delight I found that she was working as a live-in Domestic Servant at a house in No 39, Wellesley Road, Croydon. The occupants of that house were shown on the census return as follows:-

Anne has also told me that she managed to get hold of Gt. Gt. Grandad Dennis Collins's record as a policeman, and that it shows when he left the force ---- but apparently it doesn't say why he left! If he was discharged from the force as a result of receiving the injury to his leg ----- the 'leg', that on his death, had to be 'broken' to enable the undertakers get him into his coffin ---- he would probably still have needed to work to support himself and his wife. After all, in those days there was no such thing as disability pensions or unemployment benefit to be had. Quite why he became a brickie's labourer having been a policeman is a bit of a mystery ---- but maybe it was the only work available to him!

I had hoped that the 1891 and 1901 census returns might have thrown something up that would possibly indicate 'when and where'? Ellen Roff might have met her future husband, John Mills---- but unfortunately that hasn't been the case. In my mind I'd hoped that their two families might, at some stage, have lived in the same road and that they had possibly known each other from childhood. However, that doesn't seem to have been the case! Perhaps, if I keep on looking, something will eventually reveal itself, and shed a little light in that area. The fact that Grandad John Mills, prior to joining the Warspite, worked briefly in a drapery business, might indicate that they met there. Perhaps Gran brought something from the shop where he had worked! Who knows!

Anyway, it now seems a good time to move onto what little I know about Gran and Grandad's short time together as a married couple.

Quite how my Grandad, John Mills, felt on the 21 January 1896, when he left home to join the Marine Society's training ship on the Thames, is unknown. Did he go on his own, or did he go with his Mum or older brother? If he went on his own, and perhaps leaving home for the first time, did he feel any pangs of uncertainty about the 'new life' that he was embarking upon?

I know, from my own experience of having to travel from Croydon to Devizes when I started my National Service, it was a pretty traumatic experience. The first 48 hours after leaving home and 'settling in' at the training camp was an experience that has, indelibly etched itself into my memory. Although, I'd been away from home many times on my own, mainly in hospitals, nothing had ever prepared me for my initial introduction to army life! Was it, I wonder, the same for my Grandad?

He spent some five months on board the Warspite, being taught basic seamanship, before actually joining the Royal Navy as a boy sailor. According to the Marine Society, apparently, if the boys had parents living within reasonable travelling distance from the ship, then they were allowed to have 'leave' to go home and spend time with their families ---- possibly, for most weekends. If that was the case, he had more 'lenient' treatment than me! It was two months after I first joined the army that I was allowed home on a 36 hour pass. My next leave came some two months after that, when I was magnanimously allowed three weeks at weeks at home, which included 14 days embarkation leave as a prelude to being sent to Malta for nineteen months.

Apparently the Marine Society received regular requests from the Admiralty for a certain number of boys to be sent to the Royal Navy's training ships which were moored at various ports around the country. In my Grandad's case, he was posted to HMS St. Vincent, at Portsmouth.

According to the Marine Society, it was usual for a number of lads from the Warspite to be advised of their posting at the same time ---- and consequently they travelled to their destination as one group. Travel warrants would have been issued to cover their fares from Woolwich to Portsmouth, and it would seem that Grandad would have made his way there in the company of other lads. They would have all caught a steam train from Woolwich to London's Waterloo Station where they would have changed onto another train to continue their journey onto Portsmouth, and the start of their Royal Naval careers.

On arriving at Portsmouth, Grandad, together his shipmates would have been swiftly 'processed' by the Royal Navy and settled aboard the St Vincent, which was to become their home for the next eighteen months.

Again, I don't know how Grandad felt on his arrival on board HMS St Vincent, anymore than I did about his acceptance onto the Warspite at Woolwich, some five months earlier. Presumably, because he had passed through the hands of the Marine Society, he would have arrived at Portsmouth in some sort of uniform, unlike the recruits shown in the above picture.

During my 'researches' I discovered an article written by a man called J. G. Tedham RN, which he had called My life as a Sailor Boy. Seemingly, that gentleman joined the St Vincent as a boy sailor in the late 1800's. The exact date of his arrival on the ship isn't known, but in his article he mentions that horse-drawn trams were still running in Portsmouth at the time. Checking back, it seems that horse-drawn trams ran in Portsmouth from 1870 until the routes were electrified sometime between 1903 and 1906.

Mr Tedham, owing to getting 'lost' on his journey to Portsmouth, had unfortunately arrived at Portsmouth late at night. I have extracted the following paragraphs from his article, which give some indication as to the sort of reception that greeted him on his arrival, and his memories of his first days on board:-

... after waiting on the sea shore for some time I saw a light on the cold waters and heard the splash of the oars from the boat coming to fetch us. It was manned by boys from the training ship. On taking a seat beside them, they advised me not to join. After some time rowing we found ourselves along-side HMS St Vincent. Climbing the ladder, I found myself on board a ship for the very first time in my life.

The time was 11pm., and I was met by the Master at Arms or Chief of Police, who spoke unkindly to me. He said that they had been looking for me all day, and would see the Captain in the morning to see if I could have a birching. I found it hard to speak as it was ---- ( apparently Mr. Tedham suffered with a speech impediment) ---- and my speech seemed to leave me altogether. I wondered if I should ever speak again. A boy was told to sling a hammock for me. He then told me to get hold of the two hooks, and spring in. I got hold of the twohooks but instead of springing in, I sprang clean out, coming down on a load of rifles in a rack. After that, he helped me in, and then, asking God to look after me, I cried myself off to sleep.

I was awoken next morning by the shrill blowing of whistles to the tune of , 'turn out, lash up and stow hammocks', which I didn't know how to do. A boy, seeing my plight, cameand helped me, pointing to a bare wooden table told me I should get my breakfast there. I went over to the table, and not knowing anyone I felt like a lost sheep on a mountainside. After a while the boys placed basins on the table and filled them with cocoa, and then cut lumps of bread and fat pork. This was the menu for breakfast, and not liking fat pork I had to be content with dry bread. Having this meal the boys all told me not to join, and pretend to be colour blind when I went before the doctor for my medical examination.

The next morning I had my medical, and pretended to be colour blind and I was told to have another medical on the following morning, and still 'failed' the colours. The doctors talked between themselves and said that they thought I was shamming, and if I didn't say the colours correctly they would see that I had a birching. That took all my 'blindness' away and I named the colours correctly.

For dinner we had two spuds and a piece of meat, at 4pm we had tea. They filled our basins with some stuff called plue, tea with no milk or sugar, then cut out lumps of bread. I sat waiting, when a boy asked me if I did not want it. I said I had nothing to eat with it. He said that was all I should get unless I went to the canteen and bought a penny-worth of jam. I had no money, but I had a stamp to write home with, so they took the stamp in payment for the jam. The man dipped a wooden spoon into a jar and smeared some jam onto a piece of newspaper. When I got back the boy wanted a taste so I was not much better off.

The following morning I had to go to the hospital, my speech being so bad. The chief of staff asked me if I would like to go home again. I said yes, thinking I was going home. We returned to the ship and I was put under the charge of a soldier. This seemed strange to me as the soldier was the marine barber who cut my hair off so close to my head that I could hardly recognize myself in the glass.

We went up some iron steps into a bathroom with a cement floor and rusty iron baths situated around, with a wind blowing enough to sail a windmill. Having had my hair cut short, the only conclusion I could come to, was that I was going to prison. I was told to undress and jump into the bath, but no sooner was I in, I was out. The water was icy cold but I still had to have a bath all the same. After that I found myself at the tailor's shop, and I was soon in the uniform of a sailor boy.

Next morning I was up when it was still dark, scrubbing decks and over the mast head before breakfast, with no shoes or stockings on. Having had breakfast, but still hungry, we started our instructions to become a second class boy. Our wages were sixpence (2½p) per week, but if you were any plates or basins short, then you got nothing, which was often the case. I found that there was quite a lot to learn to being a sailor ---- bag and hammock, compass, knots and splices, bends and hitches compass and helm brig model, lead and line, and learning all the names and uses of rope in a sailing ship.

Having passed all the instructions you were rated a First Class Boy and your wages went up to one shilling (5p) per week. Providing your plates and basins came up to muster. If not, you drop back to nothing until they are paid for. Then having learnt all this aboard a stationary ship, we could then go to sea in a sailing ship, the HMS Martin.

To learn all that was necessary a boy sailor in the Royal Navy would have been given a copy on the Boy's Manual of Seamanship and Gunnery, written in 1871, and imparted the following advice to its boys:-

.... I would impress upon a boy's mind who has selected the Navy for his future career in life, that he has chosen one of the most honourable professions, that of defender of his country, one in whose hands very often its honour and standing with other nations is entrusted. He should ever keep in his mind that the Navy has always been considered the right arm of England; most highly esteemed by his countrymen, and of which every Englishman is naturally proud.

This being an acknowledged fact, two things are required of every boy, and these should never be lost sight of by him ' viz., honesty of character, and every determination to become master of his profession. The latter has every opportunity of accomplishing. He is received into the Navy at an early age, and at great expense to the country; he is trained to fill with credit to himself the highest position it is possible for him to attain; always provided his conduct will justify it, for all the training in the world will avail to nothing if good conduct is not added to good qualifications.

It is to this, therefore, that I would specially call the attention of every boy joining a training ship; it will not take him long o distinguish between the good boys and the bad boys; then let him avoid the latter in every way possible. Boys of good character are allowed to land from the ship twice a week for a walk, or to see their friends if they reside in the neighbourhood; my advice therefore is, prize this privilege without infringing upon it, as any deviation from the rules often leads a boy into loose habits, and the first step down the ladder of destruction is commenced.

A mean or cowardly boy, will sometimes rather run the risk of incurring the displeasure of his superiors; by wilfully breaking the regulations laid down for his guidance, than stand the scorn and derision of the bad boys, who in every way will induce him to do wrong, and laugh at him for being afraid if he refuses. But a brave and honest boy, who fears nothing but the displeasure of his commanding Officer for direct disobedience of orders, his great aim to conquer all the difficulties and go forth into the service maintaining good character, continuing in the path that he has marked out for himself, which is to lead to the top of his profession. These are the boys who eventually are promoted to one of the most valuable classes of Officers in the Navy ' viz., Warrant Officers.

I would therefore ask each boy on first joining a Training Ship to consider these remarks, which are offered for his future good, and to remember that rules must be strictly obeyed, and that leave is a privilege granted him for recreation, to use and not to abuse, when on shore avoid all intoxicating drinks and the use of tobacco in every shape. Never enter a public house. Make this on joining the Navy, the fixed principle of your life - allow no inducement to cause you to turn aside from the path you have marked out. When on board pay strict attention to your instructions; be cleanly in your habits; careful of your kit; always ready to obey orders, remembering that implicit obedience is one of the chief ingredients required in making a good sailor. A boy that does this, will finish life as he has commenced it ? a credit to himself and the Service.

If you commence life in a Training Ship with dirty habits, inattention to your drills, and disregard to good order when you are onshore, you will leave it with an indifferent character; if you start badly, you may be sure that you will end your course badly; perhaps be dismissed from the service with disgrace, or discharged from your first ship on paying off as an objectionable character, being ever shunned by your old shipmates as a man unworthy of being known, thus becoming a burden to yourself; and perhaps die at an early age, unregretted and uncared for.

Although the sentiments behind the above-mentioned preface are worthy ones, I'm not certain that during their off-duty moments ashore, much regard was given to sobriety by either the boy sailors, or their adult counterparts. From the sailors that I saw come ashore in Malta, half a century after my Grandfather would have done, their first thought was to get to a bar, drink as much as they could, fight as much as they could, and generally have a good time! Not much thought was given to being ambassadors of their country, nor for impressing the local population! Having said that, mostly they were a likeable crowd, albeit somewhat boisterous.

Whether my Grandad was my idea of a 'typical' sailor, I am not sure! His service record doesn't impart any information regarding his conduct ashore, but generally speaking, there are only favourable comments concerning his conduct on board ship.

Sadly, I never had the opportunity to meet my Grandad, but from his service record, I can see that he was a somewhat smallish man, only 5'4' tall, with brown eyes, dark hair and a fresh complexion. His service record also shows under the heading 'Distinguishing marks', that his right leg bore a scar, although what caused the scar, is unknown. He wore a couple of tattoos on his arms ---- 'clasped hands and dots' on his right wrist, and a 'heart with an arrow' on his left one. Looking at the photograph which I inherited from my Dad, of Grandad dressed in his naval uniform he was quite a good-looking lad.

At some stage, between 1891 and 1904, he must have met my Grandmother, and it irks me now, because I don't know when or where! Although I do suspect that they must have met in Croydon.

My Gran, after her appearance in the 1901 census doesn't seem to 'surface' again until she married my Grandad in January 1904. At that time, she gave her address as being 57, Maddin Road, Sydenham. Could she have been living there and working elsewhere ---- or was she working in domestic service at that address?

Having seen the picture of Maddin Road, as shown above, I'm not so sure that Gran would have been working in domestic service there. Also, in a book entitled Sydenham and Forest Hill Past, by John Coulter, he commented as follows, and reinforces my thoughts that it was unlikely that Gran worked in domestic service there:-

'In 1881, hundreds of little houses were built in Dillwyn Road, Miall Road, Porthcawe Road and Maddin Road, over the grounds of Home Park Lodge and The Lawn, which had been two of Sydenham's largest mansions. The houses were occupied mainly by gas workers, employed by the Gas Company at Bell Green, and various other labourers, and rapidly degenerated into one of Lewisham's worst slums.

I am more inclined to think that Gran was merely living in Maddin Road and working elsewhere. If she was in domestic service at that time, the chances are that she was working in one of the larger houses in Upper or Lower Sydenham where the owners could afford the luxury of having domestic servants. In fact my own Mum worked in some of the big houses in the Lower Sydenham area.

My Grandad's address at the time they got married on the 14 January 1904, was given as being the new Royal Naval Barracks at Chatham. Those particular barracks, would have been the new shore-based barracks, which was named after HMS Pembroke, one of three old wooden hulks moored in Chatham Dockyard, which had been his accommodation during his previous postings at Chatham.

For me, the next known whereabouts of my Gran, was in 1905, when she gave birth to my Dad at 22, Forster Road, Croydon.

The strange thing ---- to me, at least ---- is that Forster Road, where Gran was living, and Wilford Road where my Great Grandma Emily Mills was living with her family in 1901, were next to, and ran parallel to one another.

Was Great Grandma Emily Mills still living with her family at No. 6 Wilford Road in 1905, at the time when my Gran gave birth to my Dad? ----- I wonder!

In all probability, with the impending birth, and her husband away at sea, it is quite likely that Gran could have moved back to Croydon to be close to her own family for when the birth took place. After all, Forster Road was barely a 15 minute walk from Leighton Street where her family was living. If her husband's family, were still living at Wilford Road, and if she actually knew them, that too may have been a 'bonus' for her at that time. It's possible that she might have felt a little more comfortable in the knowledge that she had both families close to hand when her baby was about to be born.

As I said earlier, I wish I knew when, where and how my Gran and Grandad first met. I should have asked her whilst she was still alive, but sadly the thought never entered my head in those days!

All I know is, that she must have loved him very much, because she inferred that much to me back in 1959, when I told her that Barbara and I were getting engaged. Gran was in her late 70's then, quite ill, and very frail. As I was about to leave her, I bent down to kiss her cheerio, and she whispered in my ear ---- 'Take good care of her lad, and remember, that there is no love like your first love!'

I have absolutely no reason to think that her marriage to her second husband, Arthur Joy, was anything less than happy ---- but obviously ---- even fifty years after her first husband had died, she still had strong feelings for him.

I mentioned earlier that when his Mum (my Gran) died, my Dad found two photos amongst her possessions; one was a picture of his Dad in his sailor's uniform, taken in Valetta, Malta; the other, was a picture of his Mum. At the time Grandad's picture was taken, it can be seen from his sailor's cap that he was serving with HMS Camperdown. Then, looking at his service record, it shows that he was serving with that particular ship, from the 11 February 1898 until the 5 May 1899 ---- i.e., for slightly over a year. He would have been about 17 / 18 years of age.

His Mum's, i.e., my Gran's photo, was taken in Croydon but is slightly harder to date. However, she looks to have been a very attractive young lady ---- and was possibly taken when she too, was about 18/19 years old. Call me an old-fashioned 'romantic' ---- but could they have known each other then, and exchanged their photos of each other, for the times that Grandad's ships took him away to sea? I'd like to think that was the case!

From my Grandad's service record with the Royal Navy ---- (back on page 24) ---- it can be seen see that between the 27 June 1896 and the 31 March 1897 that he served as a B2cl sailor ---- i.e., a boy sailor 2nd class, with the St Vincent at Portsmouth.

His service with that ship at Portsmouth continued from the 1 April 1897 , until 1 November 1897 ---- but by then he had been moved up to become a boy sailor 1st class, (B1cl).

On the 2 November 1897, he travelled to a new posting at Chatham, with HMS Pembroke which in actual fact was one of the old wooden hulks which was used to accommodate sailors waiting for postings to sea-going vessels.

He remained at Chatham until the 26 January 1898 when he was posted to HMS Victorious, which was destined to take him out to the Mediterranean.

On the 10 February 1898 the ship was in Malta, and Grandad was posted onto another vessel, the Camperdown, from the 11 May 1898 until 5 May 1899, which was presumably on service in the Mediterranean.

From the 6 May 1899, until the 21 October 1899, Grandad was aboard HMS Cruiser, which I believe was stationed at Malta , and used to train ordinary seamen so that they could become able-bodied seamen (i.e., an AB).

After his stint on Cruiser , Grandad joined yet another vessel, HMS Astraea on the 22 October 1899, where he moved up a notch, to become an able-seaman on the 1 June 1900. He then stayed with the Astraea for a further year, until the 12 June 1902. Quite where he sailed with that vessel isn't known, although at the time of the 1901 census here in England, it was noted in the ship's log, that his vessel was at Shanghai, China. I personally haven't checked the census records for that ship to see if Grandad's name appears anywhere. However, since his period of service with that vessel covered the period from June 1900 to June 1902, it seems highly likely that he was on board the ship in Shanghai, at the time of the 1901 census. During the 1890's the ship was employed on the Mediterranean Station, which is presumably where Grandad must have boarded her, before eventually making its way to Shanghai and the Far East.

The ship must have returned to UK on about the 11/12th June 1902, because Grandad then spent a period of time with HMS Pembroke at Chatham ---- which, at that time, was still the old wooden hulk used for accommodating seamen who were awaiting postings to other vessels. He was stationed there until the 2nd September 1902, when he was posted to HMS Wildfire at Sheerness for a couple of months.

On the 27 November 1902, Grandad found himself posted back to Chatham again with HMS Pembroke, initially being accommodated on board the old wooden hulk, before transferring over to the newly built shore-based barracks on Thursday, 30th April 1903.

I wonder how he felt about being one of the last men to be housed in the old wooden hulk, and one of the first to be accommodated in the new brick-built shore establishment!

Having been used to the cramped conditions afforded by the wooden hulks, together with their many other inconveniences, most of the sailors would have felt 'all at sea' in their new surroundings. However, 'Jolly Jack Tars' have always been a pretty adaptable bunch, and once they had got themselves 'shaken down', they soon came to appreciate the changes offered by the newly commissioned 'stone frigate'.

Apparently it wasn't all plain sailing after the move, as there was a bit of a 'hiccup' over the supply of furniture, insofar as there was a shortfall of mess tables, stools and mess shelves. The dockyard came to the rescue and quickly supplied a mixture of fittings and furniture.

Each barrack room contained 12 separate messes with 14 men to each. They didn't have cafeteria-type messing in those days, and canteen messing was still in operation, which meant that the men ate, slept and took recreation on the messdecks, as though they were at sea. Although the barracks were a considerable improvement over life on the old wooden hulks, conditions for the men were still quite hard. Tables and forms had to be scrubbed white every day ---- which is something that hadn't changed in the army, fifty years later, as I soon found out when I was conscripted for my National Service!

Food for the sailors was served up from a central galley, which was collected by the duty mess cook and taken back to his mess to be dished out to the men. At the end of the meal the duty mess cook had to wash out and clean all the utensils and return them to the galley. At the time my Grandad was stationed there, back in the early 1900's, his breakfast would would consist of a bowl of tea with bread and jam ---- or on occasions, an egg. Dinner consisted of a portion of meat, but it was down to the 'whims' of the mess leading hand and duty mess cook as to what that actually produced with it ---- whether it be a 'roast' or a 'pie'. The food was ample although the quality of the cooking was dependant on the skills of the two men involved in its preparation, but on the whole they fared much better than their civilian counterparts. Each man was allocated his own enamel bowl, which could be used up to three times during a single meal. First it would be used for soup, then for rice pudding and finally filled with tea. It wasn't until after my Grandad's untimely exit from the Navy in 1907 that plates and cutlery were introduced for seamen.

Lighting was a problem in the barracks, and half a dozen portable dynamos were obtained and placed in strategic positions on the 'roads' ---- i.e, passageways through the barracks. By today's standards the electric lighting was woefully inadequate, as it was only fitted with 32 candlepower lamps ---- but was a considerable improvement on candles and oil lamps.

My Dad always reckoned that his father, John Mills and the man who later became his step-father, namely Arthur Joy, met up on a training ship; and that they sailed together right up until my Grandad's last voyage. However, having successfully managed to get hold of both of their Royal Naval service records, I can see that wasn't quite the case. The earliest that they could have met, and actually served with one another was when they both arrived in Chatham in June 1902.

My Step-Grandad 'Pop' Joy arrived back in Chatham on the 6 June 1902, on HMS Royal Oak, and was posted to HMS Pembroke the following day.

Grandad Mills, returned to Chatham on the 12 June 1902 with HMS Astraea, and found himself posted to HMS Pembroke on the 13th June.

From then on, it appears that both men served together on the same ships up until November 1906, when they both were posted to different ships. Again, according to what my Dad had been told, the only reason they were posted to different ships in November 1906, was because one of them missed the ship that they had both been allotted to. He didn't know which one of them actually missed the ship and in so doing, had to be posted to another vessel. It may be possible to check this out by checking the Ship's Logs for HMS Irresistible ---- which was the ship Grandad Mills sailed out of Chatham on ---- and HMS Pegasus, which 'Pop' Joy was on. Both ships sailed out of Chatham on the 27 November 1906; so, if one or other of them did actually miss their ship, it could only have been by a few hours at the most. Hopefully, the ship's logs may be able to tell me! I will check that out in due course!

It would appear from Grandad Mills's service record, that when he sailed out of Chatham on the Victorious on the 25th January 1898, he didn't set foot in England again until the 12th June 1902 ---- just over 4¼ years later. As yet, I haven't examined the ships' logs to see where might have sailed, but on the face of it the following possibly happened. He was only on board the Victorious for 16 days after leaving Chatham, before changing onto the Camperdown. From various other records/reports, I know that the Camperdown was part of the Mediterranean Fleet throughout the 1890's; and also, that Grandad had his photo taken in Malta whilst serving with that particular ship. When I used to work in shipping in civvy street, and also when I did my National Service I was aware that the sailing time from England to Malta was something in the order of 10/15 days duration. Therefore, since Grandad was aboard the Victorious for 16 days before transferring to the Camperdown, which was serving in the Mediterranean, it seems pretty safe to assume that he changed ships in Malta.

Grandad served with the Camperdown, for nearly 15 months out in the Mediterranean, before transferring to HMS Cruiser to be trained up to become an able-seaman. This ship was also on Mediterranean service, and Grandad remained with her for just under six months. From there, he was posted to another vessel, namely HMS Astraea, for best part of 2½ years. I am not certain, but I believe that ship was also serving in the Mediterranean at that time, although it is known from the 1901 census that at the end of April 1901 the vessel was moored in Shanghai, China.

From 13 June 1902 until 20 June 1904 --- Grandad Mills was back in England, insofar as he had postings at HMS Pembroke in Chatham and with the Commander-in-chief's flagship, HMS Wildfire at Sheerness.

It was during those couple of years that he married my Gran, and once again I come back to my question, 'When and where did Gran and Grandad first meet'

They couldn't have met during the 4¼ year period from January 1898 until June 1902, because he was at serving at sea during that time. The only other periods that they could have met was before he left Chatham in January 1898, and the 17½ months after he returned to Chatham, right up until they got married in January 1904. Although the latter period is a possibility, I'm still inclined to think that they had met before 1898, ---- possibly whilst they were still children or young teenagers. The reason that I feel that it was not during the 17½ months after he returned to Chatham in June 1902, is because I cannot imagine in those days that the Royal Navy was very free with giving its ratings much in the way of leave. He may have got a few 'weekend passes' but I doubt that there were many of those ---- and since the sailors didn't get free travel warrants in those days, he would have had to pay his own fares which would have been a 'sizeable' amount out of a sailor's pay.

Anyway, their marriage took place on the 13 January 1904 at the Roman Catholic Church of Our Lady and St Philip Neri, in Lower Sydenham. Unfortunately the church suffered considerable bomb damage during World War II and had to be demolished. It was subsequently rebuilt in the 1960's, a few hundred yards from its original position, and to a different design. After a bit of research I managed to locate a picture of the church that they were married in, albeit that it was taken about 1910, some six years after their marriage.

My Dad, was born on the 3 March 1905, at 22, Forster Road in Croydon, just over a year after his parents married. The details from his birth certificate, are as shown below:-

To me, my Dad always seemed relatively fit and healthy. However, as a baby, I understand that he was quite a sickly child and, for the first few months of his life, he had to be carried about on a cushion. Quite why this was necessary, I don't know. It was one of those snippets of information that my Mum passed onto me at sometime or other, which I could have only half listened to! I'm sure that she must have explained why he had to be carried about on a cushion, but the reason has not logged itself in my memory.

The only thing that I can recall being told about Dad's early health, was to do with his first job. It seems that when he first started work, he was employed in the print up in London's Fleet Street, but had to give it up because the fumes from the printer's inks played havoc with his chest and gave him breathing problems. So perhaps he suffered as a with his breathing when he was a baby. I have vague recollections of being told that he had suffered with bronchial pneumonia ---- but I'm not certain of that!

My Grandad wasn't at home when my Dad was born; he was away at sea serving with HMS Triumph, when the event took place, and had been with that ship from 21 June 1904.

It would seem that if my Dad was born in March 1905 it is quite likely that he was probably conceived in the June of 1904, probably during Grandad's last leave before setting sail on HMS Triumph. I don't know where his vessel took him, but it did not return to Chatham for almost two years ---- 7 May 1906, to be precise. My Dad was fourteen months old when father and son got to see each other for the first time!

Grandad was only stationed at the Chatham Naval Barracks for just over six months before being posted to HMS Irresistible, on the 27 November 1906 for another tour of duty at sea. I wonder how much time Grandad was able to spend with his wife and young son, during that six months stay in Chatham. Not as much as they all would have liked ---- especially when you consider that was the last time they would all see each other.

Ambassador to Constantinople at that time. The two vessels couldn't have been more different:-

His tour of duty with the Irresistible finished on the 23 August 1907, possibly somewhere in the Mediterranean. My guess is that it was possibly at Constantinople (nowadays known as Istanbul). The reason being that his next, and final posting, was to HM Special service vessel Imogene, which was a vessel being used by the British Ambassador to Constantinople

The other ship to which he transferred, was HMSS Imogene, and was tiny by comparison, and the last ship he served aboard.

The Imogene, was formerly called the Jacamar when she was built in 1882 by Barclay Curle & Co., of Whiteinch, Glasgow. Her displacement was a mere 460 tons; her length from stem to stern was 182 feet; breadth was 24ft 1ins.; and had a depth of 12ft. 9ins. with a draught of 10ft. 9ins. She had an engine capable of producing 3091HP, and gave a speed of 11 knots.

In 1883 she was purchased by the Admiralty and re-named Imogene as a Special Service vessel. The ship was used for many years by the British Ambassador in Constantinople, Turkey, which was the 'special Service' she was performing when my Grandad served with her.

Grandad boarded the ship for his spell of duty with her, on the 24 August 1907. One month later he was dead! As yet I haven't found out the full circumstances surrounding his death, other than scribbled notes written on his service record and the Ship's Log.

It would seem that on the 25 September 1907. Grandad was either travelling to or from the Imogene in the ship's gig, when a sudden squall blew up in the Bay of Pashaliman off of Kuyus Adasi Island. The gig overturned in the squall and two bluejackets were lost, presumed drowned. One of these was my Grandad John Mills. In the subsequent Court of Inquiry it was found that the loss of life was due to the crew (of the gig) not obeying the orders of the Coxswain to remain steady in an attempt to balance the boat.

I want to try and discover more about the accident and the Court of Inquiry, to see if my Grandad was one of the culprits who helped cause the accident, or whether he was just an innocent victim. My Dad always referred to the ship's gig as being the ship's Liberty Boat. If it was being used as a liberty boat at that time, perhaps Grandad was travelling in it as a passenger, as opposed to being a member of its crew ---- but I think that is somewhat doubtful!

I often wondered how long it took for the news of the accident to be relayed to my Gran. I had visions of it taking weeks before she heard the news, I had completely overlooked the fact that telegraph and radio communication from ship to shore, and overland was in operation at that time, albeit far more primitive than it is today. Therefore, she was probably notified of his death, fairly quickly ---- possibly within 24 hours!

What must Gran have felt when she received the news' It must have been absolutely devastating for her, knowing that not only had she lost her husband, she was going to have to bring up her son, i.e., my Dad, on her own. Times were much harder than today ---- there were virtually no 'government handouts' in the way of benefits for mother and child at that time.

I do vaguely remember my Mum saying something about Gran having received a pension after Grandad's accident --- but I haven't attempted to check that out as yet!

I notice from the copy of my Dad's birth certificate, which I have in my possession, that it was not dated in or around March 1905, the time that he was born. Instead, it bears the date of issue as being the 28 October 1907, which was just one month after the date of Grandad's tragic accident. Perhaps there was some sort of pension payable in respect of her son, and it was necessary to let the Navy have a copy of my Dad's birth certificate to make a claim for any entitlement that may have been due. If that was so, then maybe Gran gave up the original to the Navy, and obtained another copy for herself ---- hence the reason the copy in my possession is dated in October 1907!

I mentioned earlier that, after my Gran's death in 1964, my Dad had found amongst his mother's papers, two small pieces of paper relating to his father's death ---- neither of which actually mentioned Grandad by name. One, was a very small and 'yellowed' cutting from a newspaper of the day, telling of a funeral at sea, as reported by Reuters, Constantinople, and is shown on the next page, in an enlarged format, so that it can be read more easily.

The above report was possibly printed on Thursday, 26 September 1907, the day after the accident occurred, and indicates that the bodies of the two men had not been found.

I wonder if the two bodies were ever recovered, and if so, what happened to their remains! Presumably somebody would have had to been notified if the had been washed up on a distant shore, if only for administration and identification purposes. If they came to light at a later date, would they have been given a 'second' burial at sea, or would they have been buried (or cremated) ashore? If so, 'Where'? And, would my Gran have been told that her husband's body had been found?

The Sea of Marmara is a small inland sea, approximately 175 miles long x 50 miles wide, which divides Turkey into two parts. One part, to the west of the Bosphorous sits in Europe, whilst the other part ---- across the Bosphorous has its home in Asia. Although it is an inland sea, it has outlets at either end. The western end allows access to and from the Aegean Sea and the Mediterranean Sea via the Straits of Dardenelle. Whilst at the eastern end, similar access is gained to and from the Black Sea, via the Bosphorous at Istanbul, which in my Grandad's day was called Constantinople.

In today's travel guides, they tell us that the Sea of Marmara has no strong currents and the tidal range is minimal. It is an idyllic area for cruising, and abounds with islands, mountain scenery, farming and grazing lands. Normally, in the spring and early summer, the north-east winds are quite light and gentle. However, their strength increases as autumn approaches and can become very strong in September and October, with sudden thunder and lightning storms, which signal the end of the sailing season in that area. Obviously, since my Grandad's tragic accident occurred towards the end of September 1907, it must have been one of those sudden autumnal squalls which contributed towards his death.

Perhaps if the squall had not occurred, or if the crew had obeyed the coxswain's instructions, the accident may not have happened, and he might have been alive when I was born. But if my Grandad hadn't have met such an untimely end, Gran wouldn't have remarried, my Dad wouldn't have had a half-sister, consequently my cousin Anne would never have been born, and I would never have known her. In all honesty my childhood would have been all the poorer for that, since I have nothing but happy memories of the times we spent together as children.

The picture below is a larger view of the Sea of Marmara, and shows more clearly the area where the accident actually occurred, and enables me to a certain extent, to pinpoint the area where my Grandad was drowned.

Koyus Adasi Island, indicated by the red spot on the map, sits in the bay of the darker coloured island of Pashaliman, where the tragedy happened. The larger island, just above the red spot on the map, is called Marmara ---- (a Greek word meaning 'marble') --- and has been a noted source for its marble throughout history.

As yet, I don't know if the bodies of my Grandad the other sailor were ever recovered. My Dad never mentioned it to me, and neither did my Gran. I know that the newspaper report indicated that HMSS Imogene had returned to Therapia ---- which was a British Naval base at that time ---- having unsuccessfully searched for the bodies of the two bluejackets. However, it seems inconceivable, that the two bodies were never recovered, in an area that is said to have no strong currents, a minimal tidal range, closely packed with islands and shipping of all sizes plying to and fro.

The last item amongst Gran's personal possessions, concerning Grandad's death, was a short letter of condolence written to her by R. Dabner, the Senior Stoker of HMS Irresistible, which is depicted on the following page.

From here, I now move to another phase in my Gran's life, where she went on to marry Arthur Joy, a man who had been a shipmate of her first husband, and who subsequently became my step-grandfather, known to me and my cousin Anne as 'Pop' Joy.

As I said before, my Dad reckoned that his own father, John Mills and his step-father, Arthur Joy, had been shipmates who had sailed together on the same ships.

Somewhere along the line, I had got the impression that they had both started out together on the same training ship, i.e., the Warspite, which was moored on the Thames. However, I have since discovered that that wasn’t the case, and the very earliest that they could have met ---- and started sailing together ---- was in June 1902 when both men found themselves posted to HMS Pembroke at Chatham. On the next couple of pages I have included copies of both Arthur Joy’s Service Record, and the one belonging to my true Grandfather, John Mills. In that way, the two men’s records can be compared side by side, to see all the vessels that they were posted to, and particularly the vessels that they were posted to together.

At the time my Grandad and Arthur Joy first met up, in 1902, my Gran and Grandad were still single.

Had my Gran and Grandad met by then ? I don’t really know, but my ‘gut feeling’ is, that they probably had!

Was it possible that my Gran might have met both men before her marriage to my Grandad?

Perhaps whilst my Grandad was courting her, she was introduced to his friend Arthur Joy. If the two men were that friendly, it is quite on the cards that Arthur Joy did meet my Gran at some stage ---- possibly when the two men were on leave, or maybe when she was on a trip to Chatham to see her boy-friend . Who knows?

I did wonder if the person who might have acted as my Grandad’s best man, on his wedding day, could have been Arthur Joy, and perhaps signed himself as a witness on their marriage certificate, (see copy on Page 2). Unfortunately neither of the witnesses signatures is Arthur Joy’s ---- one was an M.E. Purvis ---- and the other was an A.G. Taylor. I therefore wonder if Arthur Joy was even present at their wedding!

ROYAL NAVAL SERVICE RECORD
IN RESPECT OF MY PATERNAL STEP-GRANDFATHER, ARTHUR JOY.

Ships served in	List and Number	Rating	Rating	Sub-ratings from	To	Badges	Period of Service from	Period of Service to	Character
Boscawen	15a-575	B2Cl	TM	9/08/1902	27/11/1902	G. 14/1/ 02	18/ 5/1902	15/11/1897
Impregnable	15a-7042	B2Cl	QG	12/11/02	Susp 17/3/1905	D1 22/2/02	16/11/1897	31/ 01/ 1898
Boscawen	15a-993	B2Cl	QG	31/3/1906	Susp. 19/4/1906 1/10/1906	R1 12/5/03	1/2/1898
Boscawen	15a-993	B1Cl	JM	2/10/1906	30/9/1907	D1 3/2/04	29/3/1898	16/6/1898
Minotaur	15b- 3114	B1Cl					17/06/1898	27/9/1898	VG
Agincourt	15c-835	B1Cl					28/9/1898	1/11/1898
Victory III	15c2 – 1161 & 1254	B1 Cl					2/11/1898		VG
Victory III	15c2 - 1254	Ord.					14/1/1899	25/1/1899
Victory I	152-3000	Ord.					25/1/1899	9/3/1899
Royal Oak	5 - 151	Ord.					10/3/1899		VG 31/12/1899
Royal Oak	5 - 151	AB					9/8/1900	21/2/1902	VG 31/12/1900
Royal Oak	5 - 151	AB					8/3/1902	4/5/1902	VG 31/12/1901
Royal Oak	5 - 151	AB					12/2/1902	6/6/1902	Fair 31/12/1902
Pembroke	152 - 19330	AB					7/9/1902	2/9/1903	Good 31/12/1903
Wildfire	152 - 6046	AB					3/9/1903	3/12/1903	Good 31/12/1904
Pembroke	1511-21809 & 1511-699	AB					4/12/1903	20/6/1904	Good 31/12/1905
Triumph	5 - 121	AB					21/6/1904	22/8/1904	Good 31/12/1906
Triumph	5 - 121	AB					30/8/1904	16/3/1905	VG 31/12/1907
Triumph	5 - 121	AB					31/3/1905	18/4/1906
Pembroke	1511-21535	AB					29/4/1906 8/5/1906	7/5/1906 26/11/1906
Pegasus	5	AB					27/11/1906	21/10/1907
Powerful	152 - 184	AB					22/10/1907	30/11/1907
Encounter	152 - 135	AB					1/12/1907	31/12/1907	Coming Home
Dido	152 - 262	AB					1/1/1908	7/2/1908
Pembroke	1511-29010	AB					8/2/1908	9/4/1908	Invalided
			CLASS	FOR	CONDUCT
	2^nd Class	on	22/2/1902		1^st Class	On 12/11/1902
	2^nd Class	on	17/3/1905		1^st Class	On 31/03/1906
	2^nd Class	on	19/4/1906		1^st Class	On 29/04/1907

I was told, that my Grandad, John Mills, was supposed to sail with his shipmate, Arthur Joy, out of Chatham in the latter part of November 1906. Grandad sailed out on the 27^thNovember aboard HMS Irresistible heading towards the Mediterranean and ultimately Turkey. However, Arthur Joy, who also sailed out of Chatham on that same day, was aboard another ship, called HMS Pegasus. As has already been said, my Dad reckoned that one of them missed the sailing of the ship that they were posted to, hence the reason they sailed on different ships at that time. What isn’t clear, is which one of them missed the sailing, and as a consequence had to be re-posted aboard another ship. If that was the case, whichever one missed the original sailing, could have only missed it by an hour or so at the most.

Of all the methods of transport, without a doubt the only one that never seems to delay its departure time, is shipping ---- and always seems to arrive at its destination on time. In the commercial world, that has a lot to do with ‘money lost’ if a ship is delayed in port, but also the state of tides also have a bearing on when a vessel must leave port. The fact that a member of the crew does not arrive on board in time for the vessel’s departure, is not really considered as being a good enough reason for delaying the ship.

Again, from my own National Service days in Malta, it was always amusing to watch the antics of drunken sailors, or soldiers from ships moored in Grand Harbour, who had arrived at the quay-side too late to catch the last liberty boat back to their vessel. There were seldom more than a dozen late arrivals ---- but some would dive fully clothed into the harbour and swim out to the ship, whilst others would try and steal a dghajsa (pronounced ‘dicer'). These were brightly painted Maltese rowing-boats which were propelled by their owner standing in the stern ‘waggling’ an oar from side to side. There was always some sort of Maltese ‘watchman’ that would appear out of the darkness to prevent the theft, upon which, much shouting and swearing would resound from the quayside until some ‘amicable’ deal was arrived at to row the men back to their ships. In guide books, this aggressive and ungentlemanly conduct used to be referred to as ‘good- natured bargaining’!

Anyway, my Grandad set off in HMS Irresistible, and Arthur Joy sailed away in HMS Pegasus. When my Grandad’s accident occurred on 25 September 1907, Arthur Joy was still aboard the Pegasus, steaming towards heaven knows where!

Quite how soon he got to learn of his friend’s death is unknown. To me, it is most unlikely that he received the news directly from my Gran, as I doubt very much that she was in the habit of writing to him. News has always travelled fast at sea ---- especially when it was bad news. It’s quite likely that the telegraph or radio officer aboard Pegasus ‘overheard’ a message being relayed from Grandad’s ship, HMSS Imogene, or received a piece of ‘ship’s gossip’ from a telegraph/radio officer on another ship. This snippet of information might then have been passed to the crew of the Pegasus, thus finally reaching the ears of Arthur Joy.

Whether or not this is just pure fantasy on my part, I cannot really say ---- but since I cannot see any reason for Arthur Joy to have been notified officially, or told by my Grandmother, of Grandad’s death ---- how else would he have learned of the accident?

On the 22 October 1907, not quite a month after Grandad’s accident, Arthur Joy transferred to another ship, namely HMS Powerful, which is shown in the following picture.

When she was built in the mid 1890’s, she was one of the largest cruisers in the world, and was built at Barrow-in-Furness by the Naval Construction and Armaments Company. She started her service in the China Station in 1899 and later became famous for landing naval brigades at the Cape ---- along with her sister-ship HMS Terrible ---- whilst playing their part in the relief of Ladysmith during the Boer War. Mind you, my old ‘Pop’ wasn’t serving with the vessel at that time

Compared to the Pegasus, she was massive, with a displacement of 14,200 tons, a complement of 894 men , and had a speed of 22 knots. Her armaments comprised 2 x 9.2 ins guns; 12 x 6 ins guns; 16 quick-firing 12 pounders; 12 quick- firing 3 pounders; plus 4 x 18 ins Torpedo tubes (submerged).

‘Pop’ Joy was only aboard that ship for just under six weeks, when, on the 1 December 1907, he was transferred onto yet another ship. HMS Encounter.

On his service record there is a note alongside his date of transfer onto the Encounter, which reads ‘Coming Home’!

Why was he coming home? No reason is given on his service record ---- it’s just a statement on its own! Was it just one of those ‘lucky coincidences’ that he was being sent home at that time ---- or had he requested to go home ?

A month later, on the 1^st January 1908, he had transferred from the Encounter onto HMS Dido, which finally brought him back to the Royal Naval Barracks at Chatham. He arrived back there on the 8^th February 1908, and was invalided out of the Navy on the 9^th April 1908.

What caused Pop to be ‘invalided out’ is not known. Was it an ‘excuse’ to terminate his service early, without having to ‘buy’ himself out? After all, just over seven months after his discharge from the Royal Navy, he was married to Gran. Surely he couldn’t have known before he got back to England, that he and Gran would get married! It still begs the question as to whether or not he and Gran had met one another prior to my Grandad’s demise, and if so, exactly how well did they know one another?

By thinking along these lines I am not saying that Arthur Joy and my Gran were having some sort of relationship before my Grandad lost his life, because I could be so very wrong! It could just as easily be that Arthur Joy suffered some mishap at sea which required that he was returned to England, for discharge on medical grounds.

Anyway, whatever the reason for him coming out of the Navy at that time, it was probably quite propitious for Gran and my Dad.

He must have contacted and visited Gran almost soon as his ship arrived back to Chatham. Presumably his company must have been well received by her, because, by the time they married on the 23 November 1908, she was already four months pregnant. This wasn’t something that I had known about, and it was only revealed to me when my cousin Anne mentioned the fact in one of her letters. Apparently it was Anne’s mother that originally discovered the fact after Gran’s death. It was only on finding her parent’s marriage certificate, together with her own birth certificate that she realised her Mum ( Gran) was already halfway through her pregnancy when she married Arthur Joy. It seems that Anne’s mum ---- Caroline ( Carrie) ---- was quite upset on discovering this, and had to be consoled by Anne.

Being born out of wedlock ---- ‘or having to get married because you were expecting’ ---- has been a stigma throughout history. Even in the 1960’s at the time when Gran died, and my Aunt Carrie found out that possibly her parents may have ‘had to get married’, it was a situation that was still very ‘frowned upon’. The shock of finding out would have been quite upsetting to her. Fortunately ---- in some respects ---- the attitude has changed during my lifetime, and nowadays doesn’t hold the stigma that it once did, and seems altogether much kinder on the child and the mother.

Anyway, when they married, Arthur Joy’s address was given on their certificate as being at N^o. 23, York Terrace, Cheam. Gran’s address was said to be at 40, Beulah Road, Sutton. Presumably, she was living there with my Dad.

Their marriage took place at St Mary’s Catholic Church in Sutton, where the ceremony was performed by Father James V. Warwick, and witnessed by a Catherine Roff and someone called, F. Morgan. The Catherine Roff who acted as a witness to the ceremony could not write, and merely made her ‘mark’ with an ‘X’. She could either have been Gran’s mother, or perhaps Gran’s sister who was also called Catherine, and was a year younger than Gran.

The other witness had me perplexed, in so far as I couldn’t remember the name of Morgan being mentioned in the family. Later, my cousin Anne, in another of her letters telling me about Arthur Joy, (who was her true maternal Grandad), mentioned that his sister Ada, had married a man called Fred Morgan. So I take it that it was Arthur Joy’s brother-in-law, Fred Morgan, who was the other witness.

Having married my Gran, Arthur Joy, automatically become my Step-Grandad on the day that I was born. However, I cannot ever remember thinking of him as being anything other than my Grandad. ---- other than nowadays, when I am involved in researching my Dad’s family background. Consequently, I grew up knowing him as ‘Pop’ Joy and had the good fortune to be able to share him with my cousin Anne.

Unfortunately I have no pictures of Pop as a boy, or as a young man in his sailor’s uniform. Nor do I have a picture of Gran and Pop on their wedding day, which is a shame really.

Quite where they lived after their marriage, I’m not wholly certain! However, I have a pretty strong feeling that they must have lived at 40, Beulah Road, Cheam, for several years before moving to Penge ---- which was the address that Gran had given as being her place of residence at the time she married Pop.

My only reason for thinking this, is the fact that my Dad had a life-long friend called William (Bill) Eade, who also lived in Cheam. Until I started looking into my Dad’s family background I had sometimes wondered how my Dad, who, to my mind had lived in Penge all of his childhood, had a life-long friend who lived in Cheam. Having said that, I only ever gave the matter a cursory thought, and certainly never raised the question with my Dad or my ‘uncle’ Bill.

It wasn’t until I realized that Gran and my Dad had lived at Beulah Road, Cheam, that half-remembered conversations with my Dad and my ‘uncle’ began to make sense. In fact, I had known from a very young age that they had, as children, lived practically next door to one another in Beulah Road ---- and went to the same school.

My ‘uncle’ Bill had, for some reason, lived with, and was brought up by, his Grandmother ---- whom, if my memory serves me correctly ---- was known to me as either Grannie Hoath ( or ‘Oath’). I’m pretty certain she was his maternal grandmother, since if she had been his paternal grandmother her surname would probably have been ‘Eade’, the same as his! I seem to remember her as being a very old lady, who had an enormous purple pimple ---- the size of an egg ---- situated on the bridge of her nose. She was quite friendly towards me, but I must admit, I wasn’t too keen on being up close to her nose when she kissed me ‘hello’ or ‘cheerio’!

Since the boys went to school together, it seems that my Dad, Gran and Pop probably lived in Beulah Road from 1908 when Gran and Pop married, until about 1915 when Pop went to work at a power station in Beckenham, Kent.

The only picture that I have which shows them together in a fairly relaxed pose, is one that was possibly taken in the late1920’s / early 1930’s. when they were probably in their late forties. According to a note scribbled on the back it was taken on a ‘Wednesday’ whilst holidaying in Newton Abbot.

In the April of 1909, Gran gave birth to a daughter, Caroline Joy who became my Dad’s half-sister. I only have one picture of them together as young children. It was probably taken c. 1912, when my Dad was about 8 years old and his sister, Carrie, was about 4 years of age.

Although Pop was not my true Grandad, he was a very likeable man, and I thought the world of him. I know my Dad never had any complaints about him. I recall him telling me ---- when I asked him what he knew about his own father and whether he felt any regrets about having Pop as a step-father ---- that he never thought of Pop as being anything but his true father. Pop had always treated him fairly, and didn’t seem to show any favouritism towards his sister Carrie, sister, who was, of course, Pop’s own flesh and blood !

Evidently the only time Pop disagreed with something that my Dad wanted to do --- and put his foot down rather forcibly --- was when my Dad told him that he wanted to join the Navy. Pop, apparently went off alarmingly and told my Dad that he was not to join the Navy. He reckoned it was a very hard life at sea, not to be recommended, and fraught with dangers. He didn’t want any son of his to put up with what he had endured. Whether Pop really thought that, or whether Gran had intimated to him that she didn’t want her son to end up like his father ---- drowned in some distant sea ---- is anyone’s guess!

I don’t know if Gran did get Pop to discourage my Dad from going into the Navy, but it is a possibility, especially when I link it to something Gran told me off about many years later.

Although I very rarely got a serious telling off from Gran there was one occasion, shortly after I came home from doing my National Service, that caused her to speak sternly to me. It was concerning something I’d done whilst I was in the army. Something, which she felt I had been particularly stupid and thoughtless about!

A couple of months before I left Malta, myself, and three of my army pals, built a couple of two-seater canoes to paddle our way around the Maltese coastline. We successfully built the canoes ---- which to our amazement actually floated ---- and set off on our expedition. Unfortunately we met with a minor ‘disaster’ whilst taking a short cut across the mouth of St Paul’s Bay. It was ostensibly a short three-quarter mile paddle across the mouth, whereas keeping to the coastline would have added best part of a couple of miles to our paddling. Unfortunately, the sea was particularly choppy at that point, the canoes shipped loads of water and both of them overturned about a quarter of a mile from the shore. I was sitting in the front of one canoe, with my legs stretched out under the covered bow. Also tucked into that space, wedging me in, was a multitude of kit, blankets and ground-sheets, which limited the ability to move my legs easily.

When our canoe capsized, the chap sitting behind me was automatically jettisoned into the sea, and consequently popped to the surface like a cork. He then clung to the upturned canoe, looking for me! Meanwhile, I was stuck upside down, underwater, and with my legs jammed tightly in the canoe. I was also unable to roll the canoe into an upright position because of the chap on the surface was clinging onto the upturned hull. After what seemed an eternity, but was really only seconds, I extricated myself, and surfaced alongside the canoe. Our friends in the other canoe, seeing our plight, paddled to help us, only to find themselves suddenly put into the same predicament.

It was only then, that panic hit us.! We were, at most, about a quarter of a mile off shore, which was well within our swimming capabilities. It was not so much the possibility of drowning and losing our lives that caused us to panic, but more the thought of surviving the incident, and having to explain away the various losses of army equipment which at that moment seemed to be floating off in all directions. Fortunately we managed to save everything, with the exception of one plimsoll; thus escaping a fate worth than death by not having to confess to our quarter-master, and being made to pay for lost kit.

In my eyes it had merely been an adventure that had gone slightly wrong, and was something to write home about. Consequently, having written home, I didn’t think any more about it, especially since I was due to be demobbed in a couple of months. Getting home, and getting out of the army, were the most important things on my mind at that time!

Gran on the other hand had been told of the ‘Great Canoe Disaster’, and on my first visit to see her after getting back to England she gave me a very definite telling off ---- although at the time, I couldn’t understand why she was so uptight about it ! It was years later, long after she’d died that I suddenly understood the reason for her outburst with me, when ‘the penny dropped’ in my mind, that her first husband had been drowned in an accident at sea. Presumably my crazy, albeit innocent, adventure must have triggered unhappy memories in her mind. If that was the case, then I am truly sorry that my ‘lack of thought’ caused her any distress.

Anyway, let me get back to Pop once again! After Pop came out of the Navy in 1908, he got himself a job at Sutton Power Station. Presumably, because he was working in Sutton and was going to marry Gran, they were the reasons why Gran and my Dad went to live in Beulah Road.

In 1915, Pop accepted a job as a driver at an electricity works in Beckenham, Kent, where he stayed until his retirement in 1946. It was obviously the job at Beckenham which caused the family to move from Cheam to 155, Parish Lane, Penge ---- which was where Gran and Pop were living when I was born.

According to a report which appeared in the Beckenham and Penge Advertiser, dated 15 August 1946, concerning Pop’s retirement a Mr. L.A. Gripper, an Electrical Engineer at the Beckenham works, paid tribute to him, and shows that ‘Mr Joy’s keenness and reliability’ , was much appreciated. The article reads as follows:-

‘He was a man of out-standing character and a real craftsman. All who had known him at the generating station would greatly miss him, for he had a personality that won esteem.’

‘ having first entered the power station as a driver, he ended up taking charge of everything to do with the running and maintenance of the electricity works. He has seen the installation of new machinery, including the latest turbines, and the erection of the new destructor unit.’

At the time the family moved from Cheam to Penge in 1915, my Dad was ten years old, and his sister, Carrie, was about six. They both went to school, but Dad always admitted that he tended to waste his time at school, and always reckoned that his sister had paid more attention to her schoolwork, and was much cleverer than he was. In his latter years Dad used to tell me that he regretted not taking his schoolwork more seriously.

In due course, my Dad met, and married my Mum, Florence May Dunsdon in 1930, and five years later, in 1935, his sister Carrie married Kenneth Waters. On the 8 February 1938, Carrie and Ken had a little girl, whom they called Anne ---- and a few months later, in the July of that year, my parents had me.

Both Anne and I were ‘only’ children, but we spent quite a lot of time together when we were young, and I have nothing but happy memories of our time together. Although we were once fairly close cousins we haven’t seen each other for many a long year. In my mind’s eye, I think of her now, as the sister that I never had. Quite how she thinks of me, is anyone’s guess !

The reason that we saw so much of each other, was as much to do with the Second World War, as anything. The war started the year after we were born ---- although, I don’t think that it was our births contributed to the cause!

Anne’s father, was called up to serve in the army during the war, and spent best part of seven years in the Royal Signals regiment, serving abroad. In one of her letters to me, she recalled the fact that she was about seven years old before she got to see and know her Dad, properly. Her mother also worked during the war, as did my Mum. The only difference being I think that Anne’s mother worked away from home and therefore Gran and Pop seemed to play a big part in bringing her up. Like me, she adored Pop, and because her own father was away in the army, she told me that ‘Pop filled the breach admirably ---- and was a delightful man.’

I too, have only good memories of ‘Pop’ Joy. He was always full of fun, and used to pay me pocket money commensurate with the amount of trouble that I’d got into during the week. Getting told off by Mum, was worth threepence ( 1½ p. in today’s money); torn trousers were worth sixpence (2½p.) ---- although I used also have to endure a smack from Mum for tearing them! He also had an allotment, and said that I could earn myself an extra sixpence if I followed milkman or baker’s horse and carts and collected anything the horse deposited in the road. I carried out that task quite conscientiously for him, when I knew he was coming to pay us a visit. Although I did this for some considerable time ---- and although he was always as good as his word with the payment ---- I suddenly realized that I’d never ever seen him taking the manure back home with him, in a bucket, on the bus! I don’t know that I ever tackled anybody on that point, but thereafter my forays into the fertilizer business died a sudden death, even though it caused an immediate drop in my finances.

I seem to recall visiting, Gran and Pop most Saturdays, and therefore got to see and play with Anne on those occasions. Pop would make us giggle at the tea-table, by reciting one of his rhymes. At school I always had difficulty in learning poetry off by heart. However, Pop’s little poems were instantly accepted into my young mind and I couldn’t wait to get back to school to repeat his ditties to my friends. One of his more popular ones, was always known to Anne and I as ‘When Mr. Brown goes out of town’, and went something like this :-

At this point, old Pop would noisily take in a long deep breath and continued the poem by gabbling away the next verse, listing all of the items Mrs ‘B’ would take. Unfortunately, with the passage of time I cannot now recall the items involved ---- but at the time they seemed endless. All that I can remember now is:-

Another of his ditties was ‘Old Mother Riley, which, according to my Mother, was ‘not the sort of poem to repeated in polite company!’

At Christmas time he would sometimes give us his version of the old Music Hall monologue, ‘It was Christmas Day in the Work-house’. That, was a personal favourite of mine. I always loved the ending, when a pauper in the workhouse, having had to listen to a piece of sanctimonious claptrap from the man in charge, was finally given a tiny piece of Christmas Pudding, as a concession to it being Christmas.

Pop rarely said the word that rhymed with ‘brass’, if only for the fact that Gran would shout at him to stop. However, as young as we were, Anne and I were fully conversant with the unmentioned word ---- and would giggle uncontrollably at the veiled obscenity.

Somewhere, back in the mists of time, I must have been told that Pop had been brought up in an orphanage from about the age of three, together with his brother Mark, and their sisters Ada and Sarah.

I know, prior to looking into my Dad’s family background, I’d sort of believed that my Grandad Mills and Pop Joy had joined the Navy at roughly the same time, albeit from different orphanages ---- which as it turned out wasn’t strictly true! Other than that, I hadn’t really given much thought to Pop’s background.

According to Anne, when Pop retired back in 1946 it was necessary for him to supply a copy of his birth certificate to prove his age, to enable him to receive his pension. Initially he had a job locating his birth registration under Arthur Joy, born on the 14 January 1881. Anne doesn’t know how he eventually managed to get a copy his birth certificate, but suspects that his half sister that was able to shed some light on the mystery for him.

I am told that Pop’s mother’s name was Serena Joy. It seems that Serena was unable to marry Pop’s father ---- whose surname turned out to be ‘Kersley’ ---- as he was already married to Serena’s sister, who had chosen to run off with another man, whom she subsequently married ---- albeit bigamously!

Quite what happened to ‘Kersley’, i.e. Pop’s father, isn’t known. Nor for that matter, do I know for certain whether, Pop’s brother’s and sisters ---- Mark, Ada and Sarah ---- were also Kersley’s off-spring. I am assuming that they were!

Pop’s mother died of cancer when he was about 3 years old, and on her death, Pop and his siblings were placed in an orphanage at Crondall, Hampshire. They were all admitted under their mother’s surname of ‘Joy’.

Were they put into the orphanage because their father, Kersley had also died? Or ,was it that he could not, or did not want to bring them up on his own?

Whatever the reason Pop was admitted into the orphanage at Crondall, under his mother’s surname of ‘Joy’, he grew up believing his surname was ‘Joy’.

Anne’s mother, Carrie, said that when Pop received his birth certificate he broke down in tears, which also upset her as well, as it was the first time she had seen her father cry. Not only did it give his father’s surname as ‘Kersley’, it also showed that Pop had actually been born on the 12 August 1881, and not the 14 January 1881 as he had always believed. Quite where the 14 January came from is anyone’s guess!

After the war was over, and Pop had moved on into retirement, he and Gran would sometimes take Anne and I out for the day to the seaside. We would go by train from Penge East railway station to places like Herne Bay, Margate, Broadstairs and Ramsgate. Little did I realize, in those far off days, as the train sped its way down to the coast, that one day I would live in Rochester, at the very point where I used to see flying boats moored on the River Medway. Nor, for that matter, did I ever dream that I would one day be living just two to three miles from where my Grandad, John Mills, and Pop Joy were stationed at HMS Pembroke in Chatham.

I think that I can speak for both Anne and I here, and say that we had some very enjoyable trips to the seaside and into the countryside with Gran and Pop. Compared to going out with my parents when I was young ---- where I always felt that I had to be on my best behaviour ---- Gran and Pop, were reasonably easy going and let me (and Anne) get away with things that would have been frowned on by Mum. It was silly little things really; like walking under railway arches or bridges and being allowed to scream and shout just to hear our voices echo round the brickwork; to walk down the road eating an ice-cream. With my Mum around, I always had to be sitting still if I was licking-away an ice-cream cornet. Strange thing is, even today, at the ripe old age of 67, I still feel very strange and somewhat ‘naughty’ if I walk along a road eating an ice-cream. But, if I am perfectly honest, I really do prefer to sit down and eat it ‘properly’!

I only have a couple of photos of Anne and I together, as youngsters. Both were taken on a day trip to Margate. One with Anne and I on our own looking very happy, and the other with Gran and Pop, where everyone but me seems to be enjoying themselves

I can remember on one of our trips to Margate Anne and I dug a very deep hole in the sand where we had to be hauled up out of the hole by Pop. Taking a break from our attempt to dig our way through to Australia, we disappeared off for a paddle in the sea. By the time we returned, we found poor old Pop manfully refilling our hole with the aid of a tiny metal spade. Apparently some sort of beach official had roused Pop from his reveries in a deck-chair, and forcibly pointed out that ‘the hole was a danger to all and sundry, and should be filled in immediately!’ I think Anne and I were a bit upset at seeing our hole being refilled ---- which might have been the reason I looked so fed up in the next picture.

During the war years, I think Anne lived with Gran and Pop at 155, Parish Lane, but I’m not really sure. For some reason, I don’t think her Mum (Carrie) was living with them at that time. I know that she worked for a living, but somewhere other than Penge. Consequently her Mum only got home occasionally.

However, after the war finished, and Anne’s Dad had returned from the army, her family moved into a house a few doors up from Gran and Pop at 159, Parish Lane.

In 1946, because my Mum disappeared into hospital to have a kidney removed, and Dad had to go to work, I went to live with Anne and her parents at ‘159’ for a few months. I even had to go to Anne’s school for awhile. They all looked after me well, and generally made quite a fuss of me, but deep down I didn't like it, and I was glad when Mum eventually came out of hospital and I could go back home again. Mind you, one of the things I did particularly like was the fact that my Aunt Carrie used to make us ‘Cremola’ Baked Custard puddings ---- which I thought were absolutely fabulous. My Mum never ever made those!

I seem to recall during the time I was being looked after at ‘159’ poor old Pop had a bout of carbuncles that came up on the back of his neck and also on the top of his bald head. I don’t think we did it intentionally, but Anne and I always seemed to be around when Gran used to try and draw the ‘poisons’ out by applying hot Kaolin poultices to the multi-headed abscesses. The carbuncles on their own must have been very painful without Gran ministering to their needs with hot poultices. Gran wasn’t cruel but she was not as I remember the gentlest or most sympathetic person when it came to dealing with other people’s problems. Pop used to wince and curse her for her occasional heavy-handedness, but generally speaking he endured the pain and discomfort fairly stoically.

That was about the only time I ever saw Pop ‘ill’ so it came as a bit of a shock to me when Pop died unexpectedly on the 24 June 1954. He had a little part-time gardening job at a house in Blakeney Road, in Beckenham. On the morning of the 24^th he went to tend the garden as usual, but he collapsed at work and passed away more or less instantly. His death certificate shows that his cause of death was the result of a ‘Myocardial fibrosis due to a coronary atheroma’ ---- which was basically a heart attack!

It was a shock to me when I heard that he’d died, but it must have been even worse for Gran, my Dad, Aunt Carrie and Anne, who were that much closer to him than I was. Apparently, there hadn’t been any particular warning signs, although if my memory serves me correctly, Gran did pass comment that on and off he had been complaining of a pain in one of his legs, which warranted him stopping whatever he was doing, to take a short rest.

Strangely, although I was one month short of being 16 years old, I never got to go to his funeral. I cannot even remember being asked if I wanted to go ---- nor do I recall any discussion about how the funeral went off. I was still at school at that time ---- just! ---- so perhaps that was the reason I never got to go to the funeral. I have never seen his grave; in fact, I never got to say ‘goodbye’ to Pop in any way.

Anne’s Dad ---- my Uncle Ken ---- worked as an under-manager in John Lewis’s in Oxford Street; one of London’s big department stores. In those days, stores like John Lewis, Bourne and Hollingsworth, Swann & Edgar and Selfridges were absolutely fascinating, even for children. Through my eyes they were ‘posh’ stores and had every conceivable thing that you were ever likely to want. Most had doormen of military bearing, who stood outside the store dressed in top-hat and ‘tails’, who would welcome customers into the store and hold open the doors for them. The shop assistants too, were always neatly attired in smart uniforms They were helpful and polite to their customers addressing them as ‘Sir’ or ‘Madam’ . Or, if the purchase was to be for an accompanied child, the child was always referred as ‘the young gentleman’ or ‘the young lady’, which always made you feel a little bit ‘special’ or ‘important’. Under-managers and Managers, used to patrol their departments, dressed in black jackets and pin-striped trousers, looking very dignified, dispensing help and assistance to staff and customers as required. Uncle Ken, in his role as under-manager, was like that. Sometimes when I had to go to up to London for ‘check-ups’ at the Middlesex Hospital, my Mum, Gran and I would pop into John Lewis’s, and occasionally would see Uncle Ken and sometimes he would have time to have a brief chat with us. When that happened, I felt really proud that I had someone that was so impressive for an uncle.

Eventually, Uncle Ken, took up a new position with John Lewis, when they opened a branch in Winchester, and went to live there with my Aunt Carrie and Anne. I went to stay with them for a short holiday. They lived in what seemed to be an old house, with an enormous cellar ---- just across the road from a high stone wall which I believe belonged to Winchester Prison. Anne showed me around Winchester itself ---- the Cathedral, the College, the weirs and water meadows along the River Itchen. Although not a frequent visitor to Winchester, the memory of those few days spent there as a child, is something I remember with fondness.

I don’t know quite what the reason was, but in the mid 1950’s Anne and her family returned to live with Gran at 155, Parish Lane, Penge. Whether Uncle Ken had to come back to work in London, or whether it was for some other reason, I really don’t know!. In some ways, at least as far as Gran was concerned, it was possibly a fortuitous change of events. About that time, she began to suffer serious health problems and needed constant care and attention, which under the circumstances fell squarely onto Aunt Carrie’s shoulders. It must have been a worrying and trying time for her and her family, and I marvel at the way they coped.

My Mum and Aunt Carrie, were not at all alike, to all outward appearances they got on reasonably well together, but lurking below the surface they seemed to have a few ‘differences’. Quite why they didn’t always get on ---- I really don’t know! From time to time they would both have their moments, and every so often in my adult life, one or other of them would air their recriminations to me. I never ever knew the rights and the wrongs of their ‘problem’, and tried to keep out of any family bickering. As far as I was concerned, although different in their way of going about things, they both had their good points ---- and I would not be drawn into taking sides. Having said that, on one occasion, I was caught on the ‘hop’, and was somewhat irritated by what I saw as thoughtless ‘sniping’! I sometimes wonder whether my cousin Anne got the same sort of feeling about their relationship. Not that I really need to know! I had no ‘axe to grind’, with either of them.

As we moved on into the mid-to-late 1950’s, Anne and I saw less and less of each other. I disappeared between 1957 and 1959 to serve Queen and Country on some far flung piece of rock in the Mediterranean, (i.e. Malta), after which our lives took different turns. We both got married, and started families of our own and from then on, we lost touch with one another, although at one stage we were living no more than six or seven miles apart in Kent. Sad to say that Anne and I haven’t seen each other in forty years, and never set eyes on our respective children.

Poor old Gran died on the 16 March 1964, at the age of 84, in Lennard Hospital, from a combination of Bronchopneumonia and Cerebral arterio scelerosis.

Strange to say, I do not remember attending her funeral, although I do have vague recollections of seeing Gran in her coffin at 155, Parish Lane. It was a very small coffin ---- she was only a little lady ---- and it had been placed on the oval table in what had been Gran’s front room. At one stage, various members of the family were sitting around the coffin, drinking cups of tea and chatting about her ---- it all seemed very odd to me at the time ---- and I cannot remember going to the cemetery for her service and burial. Barbara, my wife, assures me that we did attend the funeral, in fact we went with our son, Kevin, who was just over a year old at the time. She says she remembers it, because he didn’t cause any upheaval during the service. I definitely don’t remember going ---- who attended the service ---- or anything else about it! I don’t even know whether Anne attended the funeral either! However, she had only given birth to her daughter Claire, just ten days prior to Gran’s funeral, so the chances are, that she may not have been present. The only other thing that I seem to recall about the funeral, was that my Dad and Aunt Carrie were both chastised by the Priest for not having him administer the Last Rites to Gran before she died. Whether that chastisement was witnessed / heard by me, or merely told to me by my parents after the funeral, I cannot now remember.

As I said, at the time of Gran’s funeral, Anne was married and her daughter Claire had just been born. However, it wasn’t a successful marriage and it ended in divorce. After which, she met her present husband, David Newsome, whilst they were both working for the Inland Revenue in Bromley. At the time Anne was renting a little house in Croydon. They, like most young couples in those days ----- Barbara and I included --- couldn’t afford to buy a house in South London. Barbara and I had moved to Borstal, Rochester, in 1964 ---- Anne and David bought a place at Ditton, just outside of Maidstone in the early part of 1971. Also in that year, two other happy events took place in their lives ---their son Christopher was born in the May ----and David adopted Claire as his own.

They lived in Ditton for about five years, before moving to Allington until 1992. Although we were only living a few miles apart in those days, we never got around to visiting one another. Somehow, Anne and I lost contact with one another from about 1964, about the time of Gran’s funeral. There was no real reason ---- probably just the pressures of working for a living and bringing up young families, plus visiting our respective parents. Anne’s had moved from Penge to Marden, near Tonbridge.

My parents and Barbara’s family, had remained in Croydon and Forest Hill ---- although my Mum did eventually came to live in Rochester from 1981, for the remaining four years of her life. Dad had died in 1977, having suffered a stroke which had left him helpless for nine months, and had been totally dependent on my mother for his needs. Although capable within her own four walls, her body was riddled with arthritis, and virtually housebound at that time. In her final hours, she didn’t know who I was, and slipped away in 1985, aged 80.

In 1992, David was promoted by his employers, and in so doing, they were able to move down to Winchester, an area which they both like. It also happens to be the area where Anne’s paternal relatives, the ‘Waters’ came from. Sadly her Dad, Kenneth Waters, passed away in 1993. I remember from my younger days that he used to go back to Winchester to see his family and do a spot of fishing in the rivers down there. I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in fishing, as a hobby, but I can still remember the names of the Hampshire rivers that he used to frequent. The Itchen, the Test and the Meon, were regularly mentioned, plus one over in Dorset called the River Piddle ---- a schoolboys delight. Long before they ever thought of bottling water and marketing it like they do today, I harboured rather grandiose ideas about bottling the water from that river ---- labelling it Piddle and selling it to holidaymakers at a penny a bottle. It seemed a fair price in those days ---- after all, anybody that wanted the ‘loo’ then, always went ‘to spend a penny’. I thought that charging a penny for a ‘Piddle’ had a catchy sort of a ring to it! I never ever got around to fulfilling that childhood dream, and therefore missed the opportunity to make my fortune.

Anne and David’s children are now married with families of their own. Their daughter Claire is married to David Woodhams, and has a young son called Sebastian, born on the 30 March 1992.

Their son, Christopher, married Nicola Stiff in June 1995, and they have two little boys ---- Ivan, who was born on the 24 October 2002 ---- and Joseph, who was born on the 18 October 2004

They, like my children and grandchildren, are the current descendants from our mutual forebears on my Gran’s side --- the Roff’s and the Collins’s.

What the future will hold I wonder for them all ---- nothing but good ---- I hope!

Name	Relation-ship to Head of House	Marital State	Age	Occupation	Where Born
George Fuller	Head	Married	59 yrs	Cordwainer	Hever, Kent
Sarah Fuller	Wife	Married	49 yrs		London City
George Fuller	Son	Unmarried	25 yrs	Sawyer	Edenbridge, Kent
Catherine Fuller	Daughter	Unmarried	12 yrs	Scholar	---- ditto ----
Agnes Fuller	Daughter	Unmarried	8 yrs	Scholar	---- ditto ----
Caroline Fuller	G/daughter	Unmarried	2 yrs		Sundridge, Kent (believe she was possibly born in a workhouse

James Chappell	(born c.1800 ---- place unknown)
Henry Chappell	(born c.1805 ---- place unknown)
Harriet Chappell	(born c.1807 ---- at Edenbridge, Kent)
Ruth Chappell	(born c.1813 ---- at Edenbridge, Kent)
Eliza Chappell	(born c. 1815 ---- at Edenbridge, Kent)

ROYAL NAVAL SERVICE RECORD IN RESPECT OF MY PATERNAL GRANDFATHER

Name in Full :	JOHN MILLS		Service Number :	189023
Date of birth :	According to Service Record	7 April 1880
Date of birth :	According to Birth Certificate	7 May 1881	Personal Details when F/E
			Height : Hair : Eyes : Complexion :	5ft. 2ins. Light Brown Brown Fresh
Place of birth :	Sevenoaks, Kent.
Previous occupation :	Training Ship - 'WARSPITE'

Date and Period of C.S. Engagements:	7 APRIL 1898 - 12 years		Personal Details at 18 yrs.of age
Wounds, Scars, Marks :	Scar on right leg ; Clasped hands and dots on right wrist ; Heart with arrow tattoo on left wrist		Height : Hair : Eyes : Complexion :	5ft. 4ins Dark Brown Dark

GENERAL ROUTINE ON BOARD THE WARSPITE
TIME (a.m.)
5. 30	In Summer -- (and 6. 30 in Winter) -- Boys turn out for Prayers.
7. 40	Breakfast in Summer -- (and 7. 15 in Winter).
9. 15	Inspection by divisions.
9. 25	Prayers; One Watch in school; Other Watch for seamanship exercise and drill.
11. 50	Clear up decks; Boys from exercise clean wood and brass-work; and place tables ready for dinner.
TIME(p.m.)
12. 30	Dinner
1. 25	Fall-in; One Watch in school; Other Watch for seamanship.
4. 05	Coil up ropes and sweep decks.
4. 35	Boats and Hammocks
5. 30	Supper.
6. 00 to 7. 45	Recreation.
8. 00	Muster; Prayers, and then turn in.

DAILY ALLOWANCE OF PROVISIONS ON BOARD THE WARSPITE.
	Soft Bread Fresh Beef Corned Pork Potatoes	18 ounces. 10 ounces. 2 ounces. 12 ounces
(Soup and Vegetables, daily, in addition)
	Peas	4 ounces.
Or
	Barley Cocoa Tea Sugar	1½ ounces. ¼ ounce. ¼ ounce 1½ ounces.
2 ounces of Cheese for tea is issued on 1day a week. 1 oz. of Dripping for tea is issued on 3 days a week. 2 ounces of Jam or Marmalade is issued on 2 days a week. A ration of Treacle for tea is issued on 1 day a week.
On Sunday 4 ounces of Flour and 2 ounces of Raisins in addition for a pudding.
Three times a week New Zealand Mutton issued instead of Beef.
Some Salad is given during three Summer months.

Name	Relationship to Head	Age	Marital Status	Occupation	Where Born
Henry Mills	Head	32 years	Married	Labourer	Bridgwater Somerset
Emily Mills	Wife	30 years	Married		Edenbridge Kent
William Mills	Son	6 years		Scholar	Winchfield Hants
Edith Mills	Daughter	5 years		Scholar	Lamberhurst Kent

Full Name	Relationship to the Head of the family	Condition	Age	Rank or Profession	Where born
George Fuller	Head	Married	38 years	Cordwainer	Hever,
Sarah Fuller	Wife	Married	29 years
Mary. A. Fuller	Daughter		9 years		Edenbridge
Henry Fuller	Son		7 years		--- ditto ---
George Fuller	Son		5 years		--- ditto ---
Emily Fuller	Daughter		2 years		--- ditto ---
Sarah Fuller	Daughter		3 months		--- ditto ---
James Chapell	Grandfather	Widower	75 years	Retired Tanner	High Wycombe, Bucks

LIST OF CLOTHING SUPPLIED TO EACH BOY ON ADMISSION
	Two Blue Serges. One Guernsey. Two pairs Blue Cloth Trousers. Two Flannels. Three Striped Cotton Shirts. Two pairs of Worsted Socks. Two pairs of Boots. One Black Alpaca Tie. Two Blue Cloth Caps. One Blue Comforter. One pair of Mittens. One Towel. One Black-painted Canvas Bag. Bed, Pillow and Blanket. Hammock, with clews and lashings. Pannikin and Spoon. Clothes brush, Comb, and Small Bag with Sewing Materials, etc.

ADDITIONAL CLOTHING SUPPLIED AFTER SIX MONTHS
	One Blue Serge One pair of Socks One pair Trousers One Tie One Flannel One Cap One Shirt

FURTHER ADDITIONAL OUTFIT ON DISCHARGE
	One Blue Serge. One Oilskin Jacket. One pair Trousers. One Sou'wester. One Flannel. One Knife and Fork One Shirt. One Plate. One Pair of Socks. Bible and Prayer Book.


	Pictures of Middle Row, or Middle Street as it was also known which were taken c.1890; which was how it looked when my Gran-to-be, Ellen Roff, was growing up in Croydon.

Edwin Henry Roff	b. 1877	Caroline Roff	b. 1889
Ellen Roff (my Gran)	b. 1880	Sydney Albert Roff	b. 1891
Catherine Roff	b. 1881	Margaret Roff	b. 1894
Mary Roff	b. 1884	George Roff	b. 1896
Jane Roff	b. 1885 / d. 1891	Maud Roff	b. 1899
Mabel Roff	b. 1887	Lily Roff	b. 1901

Name	Relationship to 'Head'	Condition of Marriage	Age	Occupation
Edwin Roff	Head	Married	35 yrs	Labourer
Kate Roff	Wife	"	35 yrs	Charwoman
Edwin Roff	Son	S	13 yrs	Scholar
Ellen Roff (Gran)	Daughter	S	11 yrs	Scholar
Katey Roff	Daughter	S	9 yrs	Scholar
Mary Roff	Daughter	S	7 yrs	Scholar
Mabel Roff	Daughter	S	4 yrs	Scholar
Carry Roff	Daughter	S	1 yr

Names	Relationship to Head of the Family	Age	Occupation	Where born
Edwin Roff	Head	44 years	Bricklayer's Labourer	Croydon
Catherine Roff	Wife	44 years		Clapham
Mary Roff	Daughter	16 years		Croydon
Carrie Roff	Daughter	11 years		Croydon
Sidney Roff	Son	8 years		Croydon
Maggie Roff	Daughter	6 years		Croydon
Maud Roff	Daughter	2 years		Croydon
George Roff	Son	11 months		Croydon
Dennis Collins	Brother-in-law	34 years	Navvy	Croydon

Name	Relation to 'Head'	Condition as to Marriage	Age	Occupation
Alfred Dossett	Head	Married	33 yrs	Fruit Merchant
Bertha Dossett	Wife	Married	30 yrs
Alfred G Dossett	Son	Single	3 yrs
Henry J Dossett	Son	Single	4 mths.
Ellen Roff	Servant	Single	21 yrs	General Servant ? (Domestic)
Kate Jackson	Servant	Single	19 yrs	Nurse (Domestic)